Opinion of the Christian left (user search)
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Author Topic: Opinion of the Christian left  (Read 6840 times)
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« on: April 23, 2012, 02:23:00 PM »

joke distortion of Christianity
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 02:48:45 PM »


I found this quote retweeted by the Twitter of the church the woman who spoke yesterday mentioned as the one she went to when she was teaching at a Christian college in Santa Barbara:
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1) Jesus did NOT use the state to provide healthcare, nor did the NT church...rather they taught individuals to provide for the poor.
2) Any form of Christianity not preaching repentance from sin is a sham.


(Of course, I'm talking to someone with a reprobate mind.)
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2012, 09:49:37 AM »

Entirely setting aside the sheer ridiculousness of the idea that the precise means by which the poor are provided for is of anything approaching primary importance,

hey, BRTD is the one that brought it up, as if Jesus' miraculous healings is somehow a command to vote for universal healthcare by proxy (through the use of someone else's taxes), instead of making it a personal responsibility to care for others....BRTD is somehow tapping into Jesse Jackson's way of thinking.

But, if you think providing for others by proxy (taxing others) is a substitute for the commands of Jesus, then you're not reading the same book as I am.

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why on Earth would you assume that leftist Christians do not preach repentance from sin?

sexual immorality - primarily fornication and homosexuality
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2012, 01:40:25 PM »

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If that's your definition of sin, then I suppose so, but the possibility is there that using that definition says more about your interests than it does about sin.

then I guess I am also interested in impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2012, 01:56:47 PM »

Thankfully a lack of kindness or perceptiveness doesn't seem to make the list.

great point!  kindness certainly does make the list, it's right beside sternness: 

Rom 11:22 "Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off."

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jmfcst
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2012, 01:59:40 PM »

I'm not entirely convinced God is the one being stern in some of these conversations.

that's because you ignore the parts of scripture you believe are too stern
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jmfcst
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2012, 02:17:23 PM »

that's because you ignore the parts of scripture you believe are too stern
That's actually not even remotely why, but I'm seemingly never going to convince you that I actually am considerably better acquainted with me than you are, so you go ahead and keep thinking that.

you're forgetting that I have witnessed you doing so...

… it never rises to the level of a major theme in the NT and it's mostly the same sorts of throwaway mentions that Paul gives to, for instance, the issue of women who won't shut up in church.

as you said, you throw those passages away - in other words, you IGNORE them

---

but, hey, you're going to continue to do what you want...just don't kid yourself into believe I am going to buy into it.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2012, 02:42:46 PM »

No. You're applying motivations to me that don't exist because you think that your being familiar with the fact that I use roughly the same non-crypto-idolatrous method of Biblical analysis as everybody else in the pre-nineteenth-century Church means that you know me better than I do.

Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?  Why don't you dig how beautiful God’s boundaries for human sexuality are? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?!
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2012, 10:51:58 AM »
« Edited: April 25, 2012, 01:13:27 PM by consigliere jmfcst »

The thing about you and I is that we both suffer from confirmation biases on this issue, and will thus both downplay scripture that problematizes our claims.

You’re ducking the issue with this denominational and/or bias cloak, and you are definitely confusing me with someone else:

My confirmation came when I received the Holy Spirit in ’92 alone in my apartment while I wasn’t even attending any church, and before I had any bias…so I have no denominational loyalty or bias of any kind, except  a bias to the God who confirmed me with his Spirit and birthed be through the scripture while I was alone.  And the commission God gave me that night upon his confirmation of me, sent me to a group of friends who did belong to a denomination, who did have very strong bias, as their parents were very high up in the leadership of that denomination.  In fact, I didn't find a church for myself until 5 months later and after I had read the bible, esp the NT and the Pentateuch.

After 5 months, I attempted to be baptized and met with a Baptist pastor during lunch on a work day.  He said he would agree to baptize me then and there, but only if I agreed to come back on Sunday and be baptized again in front of the congregation.  I was thunderstruck and stated I didn’t care if the whole world was witness to my baptism, but that I didn’t see a reason to be baptized twice in a week.  I disagreed because I had no bias other than the scripture, to the point that I walked out and left without being baptized at all, and went back to work.

When I arrived back at work, a Christian woman (who knew I was going to be baptized) asked me how it went. After I explained what happened, she said, “I know a pastor who will baptize you today.”  So I asked her to arrange it after work.  After talking with him and explaining my testimony and what I interpret the scripture as saying, we determined we were 95% on the same page.  And he’s been my pastor ever since, even though we still do not see eye to eye on everything.

And that church, the very one I have been attending for 19 years, is an inter-denominational church.  I have no loyalty other than to the scripture.  I have NOT rejected denominations, rather the biases of those denominations have rejected me, even though I can go to any denominational service and feel at home to worship God, whether it be a protestant service or a Catholic service.  

I was born to God through the testimony of the bible.  I am rejected by many denominations because my loyalty is to the scripture and not to their man made rules.  And even though I am willing to be tolerant with man made rules, I will not allow them to turn scriptural commands (e.g. baptism) into a promotion that honors the number of converts a denomination has gained, which is what the Baptist preacher was doing by his insistence that I be rebaptized in front of the congregation, he wanted to bring glory to the works of his church.  But that’s what man made rules do – they honor the works of man and denominations instead of the grace of God.  I belong to an interdenominational church because I myself was born to God alone in my apartment, apart from denominational influence and apart from biases.  

Any attempt to do accuse me of a bias only allows me to trump it with my testimony, and that testimony is perfect and without flaw because it is not a recanting of my actions but rather is my eyewitness account to what God did.  And that is why this accusation of yours, that I am blinded to scripture by a bias, is so easily trumped by my testimony of God.

My testimony was discounted at first by those to whom I was sent, because their denominational bias stated you had to be baptized before you could receive the Holy Spirit, and since I wasn’t baptized at the time I claimed that I received the Holy Spirit, they didn’t believe it.  But their objection was refuted by the example of Acts 10:44-48 which shows some converts receiving the Holy Spirit before they were baptized.  

Others have made other objections that were just as easily refuted.  No one has ever been able to find a single issue with my testimony, and I have been vindicated of every attempt to ascribe a motive or bias to it.  So, you can take issue with me for my obvious sins, but you will not be able to accuse me of having loyalties to a bias before scripture, because my testimony was a product of the testimony within scripture and is what gave me my respect and loyalty to those same scriptures.  And my loyalty to those scriptures has been evident to everyone on this board.  And that loyalty led me, even from the beginning, to testify contrary to the beliefs of the woman I loved and contrary to the beliefs of the families of my closest friends…I was newly born Christian without a church, but I was willing to stand before their church's leadership and preach the truth to them, risking all bonds of friendship and turning the world that I knew upside down.  And although painful, I did so in love and with an eye towards something of greater worth than this world.  And I did so unwillingly at first– at first I ducked my commission and attempted not to make any further contact with them (much like Moses or Jonah, who attempted to duck commissions they saw as unpleasant), but within a week I would answer their phone calls and spill the beans.

So, I have proven I am more than trustworthy and willing to dissolve any bonds for the sake of truth; therefore, any attempt to ascribe to me a bias against scripture is futile:

Isa 54:17 “No weapon forged against you will prevail, and you will refute every tongue that accuses you.  This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and this is their vindication from me,” declares the LORD.

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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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Posts: 18,212
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 01:02:13 PM »

It's a good thing we've agreed that these man-made scriptures are automatically right because otherwise we might have to debate claims based on their own merit rather than on where they come from.

well, at least you seem willing to acknowledge what those scriptures, regardless of their origin, actually say.  For even if they are from God, you're still not going to be able to find God through them if you're not willing to be honest about what they say.
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