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Author Topic: Opinion of the Christian side hug  (Read 2075 times)
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2012, 03:46:32 pm »
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Thank you for totally taking my words out of context and being a snob about it.

Well, how else do you want me to approach your justification of the sinful nature by arguing "they were born that way??  Do you want me to commend you?

Being born with a desire does NOT make it right in the eyes of God.  What do you think terms like "renewing of your mind", "born again", "new creation", "dead to sin", "walk in the newness of life", etc...are talking about?  They're obviously referring to putting away of the sinful nature you were born with.
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I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
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A band of angels coming after me,
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Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2012, 04:00:59 pm »
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Thank you for totally taking my words out of context and being a snob about it.

Well, how else do you want me to approach your justification of the sinful nature by arguing "they were born that way??  Do you want me to commend you?

Being born with a desire does NOT make it right in the eyes of God.  What do you think terms like "renewing of your mind", "born again", "new creation", "dead to sin", "walk in the newness of life", etc...are talking about?  They're obviously referring to putting away of the sinful nature you were born with.

Oh, please.  The evidence that the Bible even condemns homosexuality is dubious at best.  It was likely mistranslated and misinterpreted over the centuries.  Personally, I think Christ is accepting of a person's nature so long as you are living by His message.  But seeing as how you're using religion to justify holding bigoted beliefs, I see it would be a waste of time trying to convince you otherwise.

Thank you for totally taking my words out of context and being a snob about it.

You win the thread (and possibly the whole board)
Thank you for totally taking my words out of context and being a snob about it.

You win the thread (and possibly the whole board)

Thank you.
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2012, 04:13:56 pm »
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Oh, please.  The evidence that the Bible even condemns homosexuality is dubious at best.

How so?  Every time it mentions same-sex sex (prior to the Law of Moses, during the Law of Moses, and into the NT), it is being condemned.

---

It was likely mistranslated and misinterpreted over the centuries.

And you have evidence of this, even though we have copies in several different languages that date back thousands of years?

---

Personally, I think Christ is accepting of a person's nature so long as you are living by His message.

How can you live by his message without putting to death the nature you were born with?!

Rom 8:8 "Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God."

Looks like your idea is directly refuted.  But, of course, scripture has all the arguments covered.

---

 But seeing as how you're using religion to justify holding bigoted beliefs, I see it would be a waste of time trying to convince you otherwise.

Yep, I have many bigoted beliefs – I hate idolatry, witchcraft, sexual immorality, lying, stealing, murder, jealously, envy, etc, etc, etc.

So, say hello to the bigot.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 04:19:12 pm by consigliere jmfcst »Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2012, 04:24:42 pm »
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Oh, please.  The evidence that the Bible even condemns homosexuality is dubious at best.

How so?  Every time it mention same-sex sex (prior to the Law of Moses, during the Law of Moses, and into the NT), it is being condemned.

---

It was likely mistranslated and misinterpreted over the centuries.[/quotes]

And you have evidence of this, even though we have copies in several different languages that date back thousands of years?

---

Personally, I think Christ is accepting of a person's nature so long as you are living by His message.

How can you live by his message without putting to death the nature you were born with?!

Rom 8:8 "Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God."

Looks like your idea is directly refuted.  But, of course, scripture has all the arguments covered.

---

 But seeing as how you're using religion to justify holding bigoted beliefs, I see it would be a waste of time trying to convince you otherwise.

Yep, I have many bigoted beliefs – I hate idolatry, witchcraft, sexual immorality, lying, stealing, murder, jealously, envy, etc, etc, etc.

So, say hello to the bigot.

According to my interpretation, Christ's message was to love one another, do not commit acts that result in the harm of others, and put feelings of the love in the place of feelings of lust.  You can disguise bigotry as adhering to the Lord; it is still bigotry, nonetheless.  Your interpretation is what I believe- according to my faith- a distorted one.  That is why trying to change the hearts and minds of people with a religiously influenced hatred of things is practically a waste; people always stand by their faith.  And frankly, I'm tired of you taking my words out of context and bringing up things that have nothing to do with the discussion.

Anyway, I'll just leave this here.  The last time I tried convincing someone to have a loving attitude toward gays on here, the thread pretty much went to hell.

Or perhaps you might prefer another option.



Either way, I shall assure you that my ignore list is a very comfortable place.  Enjoy.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 04:28:22 pm by Senator Scott »Logged

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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2012, 04:37:19 pm »
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According to my interpretation, Christ's message was to love one another, do not commit acts that result in the harm of others, and put feelings of the love is the feelings of lust.

LOL!  According to your definition, Jesus would be ok with: hating God, devil worship, idolatry, sex outside of heterosexual marriage as long as it called “love’, witchcraft, bestiality, etc, etc, etc.

---

You can disguise bigotry as adhering to the Lord; it is still bigotry, nonetheless.  Your interpretation is what I believe- according to my faith- a distorted one

Dude, do you REALLY think ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE, really believes homosexuality is compatible with the bible?  You can act like you believe all you want, but deep down inside you know the bible is point blank against it.

There are no “but I really love that person” exemptions to any type of sexual immorality in the bible because it’s not accepted as an excuse.

But, hey, que sera, sera...so more power to you...you go, boy!
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2012, 06:58:14 pm »
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So, say hello to the bigot.


Hello, bigot.
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« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2012, 12:30:26 am »
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You can disguise bigotry as adhering to the Lord; it is still bigotry, nonetheless.  Your interpretation is what I believe- according to my faith- a distorted one

Dude, do you REALLY think ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE, really believes homosexuality is compatible with the bible?  You can act like you believe all you want, but deep down inside you know the bible is point blank against it.

...wow.
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« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2012, 10:57:06 am »
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You can disguise bigotry as adhering to the Lord; it is still bigotry, nonetheless.  Your interpretation is what I believe- according to my faith- a distorted one

Dude, do you REALLY think ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE, really believes homosexuality is compatible with the bible?  You can act like you believe all you want, but deep down inside you know the bible is point blank against it.

...wow.

why are you shocked?  how is this news?   do you think you've discarded and ignored those portions of scirpture without having a motive to do so?

any time someone has to ignore a section of scripture to uphold their doctrine, demonstates their doctrine is contradictory to scripture.
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2012, 01:36:22 pm »
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You can disguise bigotry as adhering to the Lord; it is still bigotry, nonetheless.  Your interpretation is what I believe- according to my faith- a distorted one

Dude, do you REALLY think ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE, really believes homosexuality is compatible with the bible?  You can act like you believe all you want, but deep down inside you know the bible is point blank against it.

...wow.

why are you shocked?  how is this news?   do you think you've discarded and ignored those portions of scirpture without having a motive to do so?

any time someone has to ignore a section of scripture to uphold their doctrine, demonstates their doctrine is contradictory to scripture.

What I'm shocked by isn't your profound insight.
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« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2012, 01:48:01 pm »
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then please explain to me why you've disregarded the fact homosexuality does not fit into any biblically allowed sexual context.  explain to me why you've ignored the fact the bible only allows heterosexual sex.  explain to me why every single time same-sex sex is mentioned in the bible, it is cast in a context of condemnation.

why is the bible uniform on this topic during the time period prior to the Law of Moses, during the Law of Moses, and into the NT (post-Law)?

why did Jesus in Mat 19 uphold the definition of marriage as a heterosexual union?  why did Jesus uphold heterosexual marriage as the proper context for sex?

why does your God leave you without a positive witness, and instead only leaves you with negative witnesses?

are you, again, going to argue that homosexuals didn't exist during biblical times but came to eath during the Tunguska blast of 1908?
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2012, 01:51:50 pm »
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Sex acts are your fascination, not mine.
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His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

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« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2012, 02:11:39 pm »
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Sex acts are your fascination, not mine.

well, I not so fascinated with it to the point that I deceive myself about it, like you do...example, here is a quote from you recently:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=152142.msg3267832;topicseen#msg3267832
Quote
'Homosexuals' are a social phenomenon that didn't exist in Bible times.

now, obviously, anyone who claims homosexuals are a new fad is truly self-deceived, which is why I asked:

are you, again, going to argue that homosexuals didn't exist during biblical times but came to earth during the Tunguska blast of 1908?
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2012, 02:23:40 pm »
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Sex acts are your fascination, not mine.

well, I not so fascinated with it to the point that I deceive myself about it, like you do...example, here is a quote from you recently:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=152142.msg3267832;topicseen#msg3267832
Quote
'Homosexuals' are a social phenomenon that didn't exist in Bible times.

now, obviously, anyone who claims homosexuals are a new fad is truly self-deceived, which is why I asked:

are you, again, going to argue that homosexuals didn't exist during biblical times but came to earth during the Tunguska blast of 1908?

No, they didn't come to Earth during the Tunguska blast. They came to Earth in the middle-to-late part of the Victorian period when that particular complex of desires was conceived in an identitarian sense that didn't rely exclusively on how particular sex acts were viewed. 'The homosexual' is socially constructed ostensibly around sex but because of the level of sophistication that goes into the current Western identitarian model it's actually considerably less carnal than the starker sacramental characters (to borrow a term from Mark D. Jordan) that we find in earlier constructions.
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His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
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« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2012, 03:50:08 pm »
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No, they didn't come to Earth during the Tunguska blast. They came to Earth in the middle-to-late part of the Victorian period when that particular complex of desires was conceived in an identitarian sense that didn't rely exclusively on how particular sex acts were viewed. 'The homosexual' is socially constructed ostensibly around sex but because of the level of sophistication that goes into the current Western identitarian model it's actually considerably less carnal than the starker sacramental characters (to borrow a term from Mark D. Jordan) that we find in earlier constructions.

nice attempt to muddy the waters - you're dodging again.

ho·mo·sex·u·al   /ˌhoʊməˈsɛkʃuəl or, especially Brit., -ˈsɛksyu-/ Show Spelled[hoh-muh-sek-shoo-uhl or, especially Brit., -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
noun
3. a homosexual person.


ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty   /ˌhoʊməˌsɛkʃuˈælɪti, or, especially Brit., -ˌsɛksyu-/ Show Spelled[hoh-muh-sek-shoo-al-i-tee, or, especially Brit., -seks-yoo-] Show IPA
noun
sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex.

---

so, I am going to use the definition of "sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex" and using that definition, we see the bible speaking directly to BOTH homosexual desire and homosexual actions.  Furthermore, we see the bible defining marriage as a heterosexual union and placing the allowed context of sex within that marriage - thus not even allowing room for homosexuality - an action the bible condemns.

So, not only does the bible condemn homosexuality, the bibical allowed context for sex does not encompass homosexuality.  It is not only disallowed, it doesn't mesh with the context of what is allowed.

So, I understand why you attempt to muddy the water and go as far as to even destroy the meaning of the word so that the topic is impossible to discuss, but your distortion is plainly evident.
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2012, 04:00:37 pm »
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Out of curiosity, have you ever wondered why TJ and I are able to talk in a friendly and collegial manner about these sorts of issues?
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« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2012, 06:34:49 pm »
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so, I am going to use the definition of "sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex" and using that definition, we see the bible speaking directly to BOTH homosexual desire and homosexual actions. 

So, not only does the bible condemn homosexuality, the bibical allowed context for sex does not encompass homosexuality.  It is not only disallowed, it doesn't mesh with the context of what is allowed.

Does this mean homosexual desires are sinful? How is one supposed to stop himself entirely from having 'desires'?
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« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2012, 12:44:29 pm »
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so, I am going to use the definition of "sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex" and using that definition, we see the bible speaking directly to BOTH homosexual desire and homosexual actions.  

So, not only does the bible condemn homosexuality, the bibical allowed context for sex does not encompass homosexuality.  It is not only disallowed, it doesn't mesh with the context of what is allowed.

Does this mean homosexual desires are sinful?

homosexual desires are described as sinful and shameful:

Romans 1:26 "Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another...Because of this, God gave them over to shameful desires. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.  28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."


...and since desire leads to action, it results in sin:

James 1:14-16 "But each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. "

---

Obviously, Romans ch 1 is talking about the desire to have same-sex sex and following through on that desire.  But one thing I didn't realize until debating this chapter with Andrew is that Paul is actually talking about CHRISTIANS who knew God and knew the scriptural condemnation of homosexuality, yet choose to ignore their knowledge of God in order to follow their own wants.  And because they chose to ignore their knowledge of God and his decrees, God gave them over to a depraved mind to the point they were willing to engage in sexual immorality that was directly contrary to what they knew the scripture said.

I always thought Roms ch1 was referring to Pagans who did not govern their sexual desires and engaged in homosexual.  But verse 32 refers to those who know the scriptures, thus it simply can NOT refer to Pagans:

Rom 1:32 “Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”

And since they knew the scriptures, what was God’s decree within the scriptures prescribing death of homosexual acts?

Lev 20:13 “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

So he is not only referring to people who know the scriptures, he is referring to people with knowledge of Lev 20:13.   And, knowing that most people debating homosexuality are well aware of Lev 20:13, if you reread the chapter with this in mind, it is very clearly talking about Christians, not Pagans:

Rom 1:18 “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness

You simply can’t suppress truth by your wickedness UNLESS you have been told the truth; only then can you suppress that truth through your disobedience to the truth.

The fact that they once knew the truth is even more evident in the verses that follow:

Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools…

So, clearly, Paul is referring to people who knew God, but ignored their relationship with God and thus became fools…to the point where God allowed them to fall headlong into evil and no longer restrained their conscience as they engaged in shameful sexual lusts and activity, even though they knew the very scriptures which condemned it.

And because Paul is referring to Christian and NOT Pagans, he is given warning to Christians not to play games with their salvation, but to respect their relationship to God, else risk becoming reprobate.  

Now, that’s downright scary!  What’s more, it’s being played out right now, especially over the last few decades, throughout the Christian world.  Just look how fast attitudes towards homosexuality are changing.  We are witnessing the Great Apostasy, the Falling Away, prophesied to take place just prior to the reign of the Antichrist.  And we are right in the midst of it.

But, please don’t misunderstand me – Romans ch 1 is NOT saying the acceptance of homosexuality is the apostasy, rather it is saying acceptance of homosexuality is the RESULT of apostasy.  Just look at the language of the verses referring to homosexual desires, you’ll see they are the RESULT of apostasy, NOT the apostasy itself:

Rom 1:24 “Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires…26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts…28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done...”

So, the apostasy is turning your back on your knowledge of God…and the result is the acceptance of homosexuality, even though you’re fully aware of the fact the decrees of God are point blank against it.

This is NOT a game.

---

How is one supposed to stop himself entirely from having 'desires'?

Christ gives freedom from the bondage of sin.  That’s what being “born again”, “becoming a new creation”, “walking in the newness of life”, “the renewing of your mind”, etc…is all about.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 12:47:22 pm by consigliere jmfcst »Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2012, 12:56:02 pm »
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The thing is that TJ's position on this specific aspect of this specific issue is in some ways harsher because he expects people to suborn desires but doesn't seem to expect they won't have them, whereas jmfcst's is on its face more merciful but has the drawback of being almost completely divorced from reality and giving false hope (in the context of a worldview in which what's being discussed is any kind of 'hope' at all).
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« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2012, 12:56:48 pm »
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But all of that assumes that one acts upon the desires and engages in a homosexual act, relationship, masturbation, etc. not the that the desire itself is sinful. This may not be the most important theological point but if we want people to actually resist homosexuality then it becomes very important. How can I ask a guy to stop feeling attracted to other guys? Could I ask a guy to stop feeling attracted to girls? How one goes about not engaging in a sex act is obvious, they simply don't do it. But the desire is something different. Or, are you arguing that only people who have already turned their back on God could ever have such a desire to begin with?
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« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2012, 01:11:09 pm »
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The thing is that TJ's position on this specific aspect of this specific issue is in some ways harsher because he expects people to suborn desires but doesn't seem to expect they won't have them, whereas jmfcst's is on its face more merciful but has the drawback of being almost completely divorced from reality and giving false hope (in the context of a worldview in which what's being discussed is any kind of 'hope' at all).

So, you don't believe Christ has the power to free people from sin instantaneously, as if Christ isn't powerful enough to break sins grip?!

John 8:36 "So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."

If you, being a Christian, deny Christ's power to free people from the control of sin, then you're obviously one of those referred to in the following passage:

2Tim 3:4 "They are lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 they have a form of godliness but deny its power. Have nothing to do with them."

Do not misunderstand me – I am NOT talking about having someone recite a prayer and declaring them free of sin.  Rather I am referring to a genuine encounter with Jesus Christ.
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
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« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2012, 01:21:24 pm »
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The thing is that TJ's position on this specific aspect of this specific issue is in some ways harsher because he expects people to suborn desires but doesn't seem to expect they won't have them, whereas jmfcst's is on its face more merciful but has the drawback of being almost completely divorced from reality and giving false hope (in the context of a worldview in which what's being discussed is any kind of 'hope' at all).

So, you don't believe Christ has the power to free people from sin instantaneously, as if Christ isn't powerful enough to break sins grip?!

John 8:36 "So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."

If you, being a Christian, deny Christ's power to free people from the control of sin, then you're obviously one of those referred to in the following passage:

2Tim 3:4 "They are lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 they have a form of godliness but deny its power. Have nothing to do with them."

Do not misunderstand me – I am NOT talking about having someone recite a prayer and declaring them free of sin.  Rather I am referring to a genuine encounter with Jesus Christ.


I'm not denying Christ's power to do that at all. You're fundamentally misunderstanding the level on which I'm accusing you of mischaracterizing this, and also that on which TJ is trying to disabuse you of some of your chimerical theological assumptions.

Screw pleasure. It's boring as hell.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
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« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2012, 03:43:04 pm »
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But all of that assumes that one acts upon the desires and engages in a homosexual act, relationship, masturbation, etc. not the that the desire itself is sinful.

Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

If you think you can keep around the nasty play toys of your mind and live for God and not be controlled by those thoughts, then you’re off base.

Now, I’m going to get a little gross here and speak from experience:  I distinctly remember the first time I masturbated after being saved (this is after I received the Holy Spirit but before I started going to church, so I wasn’t influenced by church teaching).  And right afterward, while I was still in the shower, at the scene of my sin, it occurred to me, “Hey, I did not have to do that.  In fact, I didn’t even have the desire to it.  I just did it out of habit.”  And I asked for forgiveness and left it behind.  Christ had freed me from the control of sin.  I was now in control, and my mind was on Christ. 

---

This may not be the most important theological point but if we want people to actually resist homosexuality then it becomes very important. How can I ask a guy to stop feeling attracted to other guys?

The Spirit of Christ gives people a new mind, with new thoughts.  And if a Holy Spirit filled person will cede control of their body to their new thoughts, they will be freed from sin:

Romans 12:2 “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”

2Cor 5:16 16 “So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

Just to be clear, I do NOT believe in once-saved-always-saved.  I could choose right now to go back to my former way of life (just as Lot’s wife looked back, and just as many of the Israelites longed to go back to Egypt), and over time, I would become entangled again and would actually be more corrupt than I was before Christ found me. 

But I have to choose on a daily basis whether I want to a) purposely short circuit my new mind and go back to the uncontrollable life that I hated, or b) allow my new mind to continue to take me towards Christ.

Sin is a dangerous thing because it deceives in two ways: 
1) It attempts to convince us there is no consequence to rebelling against God, and thus we should not fear his word,
2) and after we sin, it attempts to destroy our faith in God’s forgiveness by lying to us by making us feel we are without hope and thus attempts to prevent us from seeking reconciliation with God (remember how Adam and Eve hid themselves from God’s presence after they sinned.  Sin had destroyed their faith in God and to them, their sin had become bigger than God).

Both of those lies attempt to redefine our view of God by replacing our view of God with our view of ourselves…the first lie attempts to replace God’s righteousness with our false righteousness.  The second lie attempts to replace God’s forgiveness with our self-condemnation.

So, sin basically attempts to insert Your view of Yourself and push aside God’s view of God, so that we beat ourselves up with our view of our unrighteousness in order to hide from us the view of God’s righteousness.

And, sometimes, even us Christians are fooled into using the scripture to condemn ourselves.  Allow me to explain…from time to time during my walk with Christ, I would respond to me sinning by picking up a bible and starting in the MIDDLE of one of the books and read verses like Ezekiel 18:20 “The soul who sins is the one who will die” or Galatians 6:8 “The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction”, and I would condemn myself and wallow in self-pity. 

But that was NOT God’s view of me, nor was it my view of God.  Rather that was my view of myself – I was looking at myself as the standard instead of at God as the standard.  Cause, one time when I was again in this self-condemning mood, I privately picked up a bible to beat myself up again, but this time I happen to start at the BEGINNING of a book in the bible.  And, in the opening remarks of that particular book of scripture, before I could find mention of my sins, I read:

“Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. “

So, I realized that even though I wanted to start the conversation off by focusing on my sins in order to condemn myself, God wanted to start the conversation off by mentioning the grace and peace that he wanted to bestow up me in order to bring me, not to condemnation, but to salvation.

It was as if Satan wanted me to start the conversation with “You are worthless and condemned.”, but God interrupted me with a welcome of “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.”

Then I quickly flipped and read the beginning of every book of the NT, and I realized that EACH and EVERY book of the NT starts off the conversation with God’s plan for Grace before it ever gets to my sins. 

So, now, when I sin, I no longer approach the failures of my sins from my viewpoint of myself, but now I first set my sights on Christ and approach them from God’s viewpoint, with the knowledge that God planned his Grace through Jesus anything else existed, including my sins.

Therefore, since God had a plan, from the very beginning, to deal with our sins, why do you doubt that Christ has the power to change the nature of a sinner?  For Jesus Christ is

“The Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.” (Rev 13:8 )
And, ss Christ described himself:

The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
” (Proverbs 8:22)

So, the proper context to view sin is NOT from the power of sin, rather the proper context of sin is from the power and vantage point of God’s eternal plan of Grace.  The recreation and rewiring of a brain to align it to God’s will is a trivial matter to God’s power.  And he frees captives of sin as quickly as the chains miraculously snapped away and fell off the hands of Hebrew slaves in Egypt during the Exodus.

 Eph 4:8 “When he ascended on high,
   he led captives in his train
   and gave gifts to men.”
Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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