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Author Topic: Romney Camp: Why we will get the youth vote.  (Read 2111 times)
Torie
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« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2012, 12:41:44 pm »
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You've mentioned your nephew's plan before, I just don't know how common that situation is or what that insurance actually buys. Not Ameriplan by any chance is it? Smiley What are the benefits - is it catastrophic primarily with high deductibles?

I don't recall at the moment the company, but yes, it is a sound plan. I know because it has since been used - big time. We just dodged a bullet actually, because when he moved in with me I found out he did not have medical insurance, and went ballistic. About 10 months later, his world fell apart.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 12:43:38 pm by Torie »Logged

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« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2012, 12:43:27 pm »
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You've mentioned your nephew's plan before, I just don't know how common that situation is or what that insurance actually buys. Not Ameriplan by any chance is it? Smiley What are the benefits - is it catastrophic primarily with high deductibles?

I don't know the company, but yes, it is a sound plan. I know because it has since been used - big time. We just dodged a bullet actually, because when he moved in with me I found out he did not have medical insurance, and went ballistic. About 10 months later, his world fell apart.

Was it catastrophic only? How do you think the company stays profitable?
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brittain33
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« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2012, 12:44:06 pm »
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The youngs I know would like to find a halfway decent job once they are done college. I feel sorry for them if there is four more years of Obamanomics. The Obama Jobless "Recovery" is destroying the hopes and dreams of America. No, America can't afford four more years of Obama.

You're right. We need to return to the successful "red" policies illustrated in this chart.

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Torie
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« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2012, 12:45:36 pm »
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You've mentioned your nephew's plan before, I just don't know how common that situation is or what that insurance actually buys. Not Ameriplan by any chance is it? Smiley What are the benefits - is it catastrophic primarily with high deductibles?

I don't know the company, but yes, it is a sound plan. I know because it has since been used - big time. We just dodged a bullet actually, because when he moved in with me I found out he did not have medical insurance, and went ballistic. About 10 months later, his world fell apart.

Was it catastrophic only? How do you think the company stays profitable?

No, it was not catastrophic only, but a "normal" PPO plan. Obviously, the company took a bath on my nephew. If it had too many of my nephew types, the company would have new "management," to wit, the CA Insurance Commissioner.
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brittain33
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« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2012, 12:47:43 pm »
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No, it was not catastrophic only, but a "normal" PPO plan. Obviously, the company took a bath on my nephew.

Well, I can't speak for his case, but I do wonder how prevalent or available $60/month plans are, what the copays were, and why everyone wouldn't have them if they could. Nothing that inexpensive was available in Massachusetts and rather than write that off as bad state policy I'd ask about the circumstances of that plan and who would be allowed to apply for it. You need a lot--a lot--of healthy young people to balance out the one bad bet like your nephew. Individual health insurance on the open market was unaffordable for young people because of adverse selection and lack of bargaining power.
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Politico
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« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2012, 12:51:12 pm »
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The youngs I know would like to find a halfway decent job once they are done college. I feel sorry for them if there is four more years of Obamanomics. The Obama Jobless "Recovery" is destroying the hopes and dreams of America. No, America can't afford four more years of Obama.

You're right. We need to return to the successful "red" policies illustrated in this chart.



Yes, let's compare the start of a recession to the best of the Obama Jobless "Recovery." Or how about we compare the Obama Jobless "Recovery" to past (real) recoveries:



Trying to convince young people that this is what a healthy economy looks like is absurd. No wonder young people are losing faith in America.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 01:01:45 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2012, 12:52:06 pm »
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Who was President in 2007 and 2008?
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Torie
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« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2012, 12:55:01 pm »
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The youngs I know would like to find a halfway decent job once they are done college. I feel sorry for them if there is four more years of Obamanomics. The Obama Jobless "Recovery" is destroying the hopes and dreams of America. No, America can't afford four more years of Obama.

You're right. We need to return to the successful "red" policies illustrated in this chart.



Charts are just so much fun.  I mean it is not as if they prove any cause and effect by themselves. The Pub chart on this little topic would have two lines, one for a "normal" recovery from a deep recession, with the line up from the trough having a nice steep slope, and below it the Obama "recovery" line, with the kind of slope that I could run up on for about 3 miles without feeling any pain, and written above the next "best" thing to the flat line, would be the word "stimulus." And oh percentages would be used, with a chart scaling to emphasize the point. You might have another line from the word "stimulus" to three little circles, with one of the big fat ones  having the words "public employees" written in it, and another circle would have the word "unaccountable for/lost" inserted. And somewhere might be written the words "cost per job created" and next to that "$400,000" or whatever the number is.

The next chart would then show the percentage of the budget going to debt service over the years when interest rates return to "normal" levels.

See how this game works?  Smiley
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 01:28:56 pm by Torie »Logged

Politico
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« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2012, 12:55:14 pm »
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Who was President in 2007 and 2008?

There you go again. The old "Blame Bush" routine. How did that work out for Democrats in 2010?

For the record, I supported Al Gore, John Kerry and Barack Obama. I am not proud of my past support, but it is there. I still like Barack's personality, but his record as president is not worthy of re-election. His economic philosophy, in particular, is a loser for America. I expected Bill Clinton, a pro-business/pro-free market Democrat, not Jimmy Carter. At least Barack got most things right on the foreign policy front, instead of being a complete failure like Carter, but it's not good enough.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 01:00:24 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2012, 01:08:34 pm »
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Charts are just so much fun.  I mean it is not as if they prove any cause and effect by themselves. The Pub chart on this little topic will have two lines, one for a "normal" recovery from a deep recession, with the line up from the trough with a nice steep slope, and below it the Obama "recovery" line, with the kind of slope that I could run up on for about 3 miles without feeling any pain, and written above the next "best" thing to a flat line, would be written the word "stimulus." And oh percentages would be used, with a chart scaling to emphasize the point.

Yup. I was responding Politico's line about four years of Obamanomics etc., blah blah. The truth is the 2008-2009 recession was not a normal recession, induced by a demand or supply shock or by high interest rates, but was a different one requiring long-term delevering of, yes, too much debt by individuals. Recoveries from recessions like that are slow and painful because you can't juice demand through interest rates that are already at zero. Having government debt displace absent private debt to keep demand from falling through the floor and leading to a depression was the right thing to do, and the stimulus and auto restructuring contributed heavily to unemployment not being higher and the economy sinking into a tailspin.

Now the U.S. is doing better than any comparable country - those that tried austerity recommended by Republicans are faltering badly, look at the UK, sinking back into recession today, not good for people claiming this is Obama's fault. Look at Europe.

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You might have another line from the word "stimulus" to three little circles, with one of the big fat ones being having the words "public employees" in it

AKA, "not throwing teachers into the unemployment line to compete with others for jobs because tax revenues are down," unquestionably good policy in a recession. They should promote that. Laying off public employees when demand for their services is constant, their wages have a multiplier effect, and we're trying to reduce unemployment, is counterproductive.

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and another circle would have the word "unaccountable for/lost" written in it.

Not going for the "waste, fraud, and abuse" line, are we? How honest is that?

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The next chart would then show the percentage of the budget going to debt service over the years when interest rates return to "normal" levels.

Yup, that's why we need the Romney plan of cutting taxes, increasing defense spending, and reducing the budget deficit.
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« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2012, 01:09:03 pm »
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Who was President in 2007 and 2008?

There you go again.

You posted a chart. Look at the chart. Answer my question.
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« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2012, 01:18:32 pm »
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Handwringing about youth unemployment with no credible policies to remedy it, and with stated policies that only make it worse, is tough to respond to. It reminds me of when John Kerry would go to shuttered factories in Ohio in 2004 to talk about the decline of manufacturing. We knew he couldn't bring those jobs back. At some level, he knew it, too. The economy was in decent shape and manufacturing employment was still shrinking. But it was good politics to blame George W. Bush and so he did. So we'll get criticism of Obama for not doing more to reduce unemployment than what he's already done, while Republicans propose austerity and capital-protection policies that serve the interests of people who are not the unemployed. I respect the politicial strategy but not the piousness with which it's expressed.
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Politico
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« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2012, 01:21:15 pm »
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Charts are just so much fun.  I mean it is not as if they prove any cause and effect by themselves. The Pub chart on this little topic will have two lines, one for a "normal" recovery from a deep recession, with the line up from the trough with a nice steep slope, and below it the Obama "recovery" line, with the kind of slope that I could run up on for about 3 miles without feeling any pain, and written above the next "best" thing to a flat line, would be written the word "stimulus." And oh percentages would be used, with a chart scaling to emphasize the point.

Yup. I was responding Politico's line about four years of Obamanomics etc., blah blah. The truth is the 2008-2009 recession was not a normal recession, induced by a demand or supply shock or by high interest rates, but was a different one requiring long-term delevering of, yes, too much debt by individuals. Recoveries from recessions like that are slow and painful because you can't juice demand through interest rates that are already at zero. Having government debt displace absent private debt to keep demand from falling through the floor and leading to a depression was the right thing to do, and the stimulus and auto restructuring contributed heavily to unemployment not being higher and the economy sinking into a tailspin.

The problem is that economic agents, whether we are talking about households or firms, are afraid of how the deficit will be taken care of down the road. They anticipate tax increases, rather than spending cuts, if Obama gets re-election. This is taming spending and hampering the recovery. Furthermore, Obamacare is a federal mandate gone too far. A health insurance mandate works for some states (e.g., Massachusetts) that wish to fund such a mandate, but it does not work for every state and should not have been forced upon every state. Romney recognizes this. Hopefully the Supreme Court will shoot Obamacare down. Of course, anticipated costs associated with Obamacare are hampering business and consumer confidence since tax increases are anticipated to pay for much of Obamacare.

I suspect this recovery would look more normal had Obamacare never been passed, had Obama not run around telling businesses how to do business, and had the Obama Administration spent the stimulus more prudently.

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Now the U.S. is doing better than any comparable country - those that tried austerity recommended by Republicans are faltering badly, look at the UK, sinking back into recession today, not good for people claiming this is Obama's fault. Look at Europe.

Unlike Europe, we do not have a debt crisis. However, four more years of Obama is sure to lead to our own debt crisis. As Cameron put it earlier today, the solution to a debt crisis is not more debt. The UK has incurred a recession in the short-run to better their health in the long-run. It is the fiscal policy equivalent to Volcker's monetary policy in the late 70s/early 80s. Volcker tamed the inflation beast here and Cameron is taming the debt beast there. The UK is ultimately doing the right, but painful, thing for the UK. Obviously we do NOT want to be forced into the same corner as the UK, but we will have no choice if we continue four more years of Obamanomics.

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Laying off public employees when demand for their services is constant, their wages have a multiplier effect, and we're trying to reduce unemployment, is counterproductive.

Paying public sector workers more than their counterparts in the private sector is unsustainable, not to mention unfair.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 01:26:34 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2012, 01:21:17 pm »
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If the Romney camp is as connected to youthfulness as the Romney supporters in this thread...

Um... Good luck.
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Torie
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« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2012, 01:33:51 pm »
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No, a quite shocking amount off the stimulus money was just "lost" by states and localities.  They simply cannot account for it. (Just why the Pubs are so in love with state and local governments  has always kind of "amazed" me - all too often they are just cesspools of waste, fraud, abuse and back scratching.) Sure, it is not a huge percentage, so probably an absolute number should be used rather than the percentage, which might look a bit anemic.

Hey, our little "debate" has been fun Brittain33. You are getting quite good at this you know. Have you ever considered becoming a lawyer? You have a nice logical mind, and a good instinct for the other guy's Achilles Heel.  Smiley
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« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2012, 01:53:10 pm »
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I guess Torie is the kind of youth vote that Romney aims at.
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« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2012, 02:16:55 pm »
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If the youth of American want a future that is bright and prosperous, then Mitt Romney will be the candidate.

This, or perhaps they prefer four more years of "do you want fries with that?"

Correct!

I thought Republicans were complaining that Obama was going to ban fries?
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« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2012, 02:24:16 pm »
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I guess Torie is the kind of youth vote that Romney aims at.

Well I feel and act young (sometimes almost like a teenager). Chronological age is for the "little people."  I have transcended such trivialities - for the moment. Smiley
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« Reply #68 on: April 25, 2012, 03:03:16 pm »
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The paul ryan plan does an excellent job of reducing medicare and medicaid spending.

I strongly encourage Romney to campaign heavily on the Paul Ryan plan, which cuts medicare and medicaid spending by decree (we will cut x%, and cut everything else by 80%) without explaining how that would happen or would translate into changes policies. But if Romney wants to lose the one age group he's guaranteed to win against Obama, running on cutting Medicare would be helpful, which is why he's not going to do it.

Certainly Medicare and Medicaid are programs where youngs and poors have to pay more and more tax while the the far wealthier Tories collect more and more benefits.

One very smart commentator correctly described Medicare as a transfer program from black males to white females.


It's very prudent for Romney to correctly strike a balance where he can compete for the votes of non-basement dwelling 25 year olds while still retaining a landslide majority of seniors.
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« Reply #69 on: April 25, 2012, 03:26:04 pm »
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LOL krazen. I guess I'm a likely Romney voter.

Certainly you are voting against your own interests if you are otherwise.

Social Security is now set to run out of money in 2033. Sorry to be you I suppose!

Romney's promised increases in defense and tax cuts at the upper brackets will contribute greatly to Social Security's stability.

You haven't heard the good news that cutting my taxes creates jobs? Mittens shouldn't talk much about foreign policy with the youngs actually.  He should just do that with that old former warrior Clarence in a soundproof room.  Tongue
Government can create a lot more jobs than you can as evidenced by the stimulus bill - it takes government $400,000 for one job, but how many millions does it take for Torie to create a job?
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« Reply #70 on: April 25, 2012, 09:17:55 pm »
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LOL krazen. I guess I'm a likely Romney voter.

Certainly you are voting against your own interests if you are otherwise.

Social Security is now set to run out of money in 2033. Sorry to be you I suppose!

Romney's promised increases in defense and tax cuts at the upper brackets will contribute greatly to Social Security's stability.

You haven't heard the good news that cutting my taxes creates jobs? Mittens shouldn't talk much about foreign policy with the youngs actually.  He should just do that with that old former warrior Clarence in a soundproof room.  Tongue
Government can create a lot more jobs than you can as evidenced by the stimulus bill - it takes government $400,000 for one job, but how many millions does it take for Torie to create a job?

Torie's assistant earns more than $400,000, maybe even millions? Is Torie actually Steven Spielberg incognito?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 09:20:29 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #71 on: April 25, 2012, 09:25:49 pm »
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Saving this thread for November 7th.
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« Reply #72 on: April 25, 2012, 09:26:23 pm »
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It's very prudent for Romney to correctly strike a balance where he can compete for the votes of non-basement dwelling 25 year olds while still retaining a landslide majority of seniors.

The objective is simply to discourage the youngs from coming out to vote, not necessarily to win them over. Fortunately, the economy by itself is doing most of the heavy lifting on this front.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 09:35:25 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #73 on: April 25, 2012, 11:31:43 pm »
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LOL krazen. I guess I'm a likely Romney voter.

Certainly you are voting against your own interests if you are otherwise.

Social Security is now set to run out of money in 2033. Sorry to be you I suppose!

Romney's promised increases in defense and tax cuts at the upper brackets will contribute greatly to Social Security's stability.

You haven't heard the good news that cutting my taxes creates jobs? Mittens shouldn't talk much about foreign policy with the youngs actually.  He should just do that with that old former warrior Clarence in a soundproof room.  Tongue
Government can create a lot more jobs than you can as evidenced by the stimulus bill - it takes government $400,000 for one job, but how many millions does it take for Torie to create a job?

Torie's assistant earns more than $400,000, maybe even millions? Is Torie actually Steven Spielberg incognito?
No, but not every Torie will hire an assistant or contribute to the economy at all with the taxcut. Also Torie's assistant wont create infrastructure, or give a payroll taxcut to the poors.
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« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2012, 10:07:49 am »
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LOL krazen. I guess I'm a likely Romney voter.

Certainly you are voting against your own interests if you are otherwise.

Social Security is now set to run out of money in 2033. Sorry to be you I suppose!

Romney's promised increases in defense and tax cuts at the upper brackets will contribute greatly to Social Security's stability.

You haven't heard the good news that cutting my taxes creates jobs? Mittens shouldn't talk much about foreign policy with the youngs actually.  He should just do that with that old former warrior Clarence in a soundproof room.  Tongue
Government can create a lot more jobs than you can as evidenced by the stimulus bill - it takes government $400,000 for one job, but how many millions does it take for Torie to create a job?

Torie's assistant earns more than $400,000, maybe even millions? Is Torie actually Steven Spielberg incognito?
No, but not every Torie will hire an assistant or contribute to the economy at all with the taxcut.

What do you think people do with their tax cuts? Withdraw it in the form of cash, and stuff it under a mattress to do nothing? No, of course not. People use their income to consume and/or invest. All else equal, this generally leads to further production/consumption, and economic/employment growth.

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Also Torie's assistant wont create infrastructure, or give a payroll taxcut to the poors.

Torie's assistant won't pay taxes to be used on infrastructure? Torie's assistant won't possibly donate to charities that help the poor?

By the way, what grand infrastructure projects have been created as a result of the Obama Stimulus? Do you think Solyandra is infrastructure? Do you think giving away billions to go unaccounted for at the state level (Thanks California/Illinois) is infrastructure?

Our infrastructure is not being rebuilt. Freeways are in rough shape across the nation. It seems to me, and many others, that tax dollars nowadays are mostly being wasted by overpaid bureaucrats whether we are talking about their salaries or the allocation of resources by them. Europe is proving that this shell game cannot go on forever.

There's a reason why America is the best. Some people want us to wither into a wimpy shade of our former self. Others like myself want America to continue being the best.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 10:32:16 am by Politico »Logged

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