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Author Topic: The Night Cometh  (Read 2264 times)
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2012, 11:00:03 am »
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But there's a sense of urgency here that leads me to believe it refers to something close at hand.

again, I agree about the sense of urgency, but you're basically solving this with your observations, for if the 3 days in the tomb were "the night", why would there be an urgency?  what's 3 days out of at least ~2000 years of Christ's presence on earth through the church?

But verse 5 seals the definition of the night:

John 9:4 ”We must work the works of him that sent me while it is day. The night cometh when no man can work.  5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

so, the night is NOT death of common believers, it is simply the presence of Christ in the world:

Mat 4:16 "the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned"
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 11:09:27 am by consigliere jmfcst »Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
shua
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« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2012, 11:52:06 pm »
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I do not see how this passage could be talking about belief or converting people to belief.  God's work here is the healing in a direct and physical sense that Jesus is doing.

It may be easy to see the time in the tomb as not much of anything, but really it was momentous. It really was night, and there was a sense of finality. You have to look at it from a pre-resurrection perspective to understand it. Jesus was preparing his disciples for this, and his time beforehand was precious.
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2012, 12:22:20 pm »
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I do not see how this passage could be talking about belief or converting people to belief.  God's work here is the healing in a direct and physical sense that Jesus is doing.

Ok, this has been a good discussion.  I feel that you are one of the few on here that make an honest effort to allow scripture to interpret scripture.  But, that was the weakest point you’ve made so far, for you are contradicting your previous request to use the gospel of John to interpret the terminology of John, for it defines point blank the “works of God” as bringing people to a belief in Jesus Christ, which is exactly what the Great Commission is all about.

---

It may be easy to see the time in the tomb as not much of anything, but really it was momentous. It really was night, and there was a sense of finality. You have to look at it from a pre-resurrection perspective to understand it. Jesus was preparing his disciples for this, and his time beforehand was precious.

1) In John 9:4, Jesus was NOT speaking to his disciples, but rather to his detractors.

2) Jesus’ disciples did not catch Jesus’ drift about being killed and rising again, until AFTER the resurrection.  So if Jesus was attempting to prepare the disciples for the 3 days in the tomb, Jesus failed.

---

To interpret…

John 9:4 ”We must work the works of him that sent me while it is day. The night cometh when no man can work.  5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

…as…

[We must strive to save people while Christ’s presence is in the world.  A time will come when the presence of Christ will not be in the world, and no one will be able to believe in him.  But, as long as Christ in the world, there remains a chance for people to grasp truth which lights the path to salvation.]

…requires jumping through ZERO hoops. 

I can use the scriptural definitions of “the works of God” as bringing people to a belief in Christ, “the light” as the presence of Christ that attracts people to God,  “the day” as the time period that light is available to lead people to salvation, and “the night” as an direct antonym for “the day” and the cessation of daytime activities that involved bringing people to Christ.

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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
shua
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« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2012, 08:13:25 pm »
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I do not see how this passage could be talking about belief or converting people to belief.  God's work here is the healing in a direct and physical sense that Jesus is doing.

Ok, this has been a good discussion.  I feel that you are one of the few on here that make an honest effort to allow scripture to interpret scripture.  But, that was the weakest point you’ve made so far, for you are contradicting your previous request to use the gospel of John to interpret the terminology of John, for it defines point blank the “works of God” as bringing people to a belief in Jesus Christ, which is exactly what the Great Commission is all about.
I am getting my definition of the works of God from the previous verse, when he begins to answer his disciples "he was born blind so that God's works might be revealed in him."  Belief does not require that he be born blind, however the physical healing in this passage does.
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2012, 02:24:29 pm »
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I am getting my definition of the works of God from the previous verse, when he begins to answer his disciples "he was born blind so that God's works might be revealed in him."  Belief does not require that he be born blind, however the physical healing in this passage does.

but the rest of the blind man's story, which the entire 9th chapter of John is focuses on, shows that the man who was once blind became a believer...so the "works of God" in John 9 meets the definition of the "works of God" in John 6:28:

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

but, this discussion has become unprofitable, so I'll give you the last word.
Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
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