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Author Topic: Mitt Romney Says to College Students: "Just Borrow Money from your Parents"  (Read 2381 times)
cavalcade
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« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2012, 08:09:33 pm »
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It sounds weird and will certainly be bad for Romney politically but that's basically what federally subsidized student loans are.  7% interest rate with no assets to back it up?  Good luck getting that from a credit card issuer as an 18 year old.

Then you pay back the loan and you pay higher taxes in the future so that current taxpayers can have their Medicare.
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opebo
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« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2012, 08:37:24 pm »
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Come on buddy, everyone in that photo is a rich kid.
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« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2012, 08:42:55 pm »
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About the only licit business that I can imagine someone now stating [sic] on $500 is a food cart or door-to-door selling.

And that shows your lack of imagination.  Also bear in mind that virtually all of these college students already own computers, and many already own decent suits.

You need a lot more than a suit and a computer for a tech start-up. Maybe that's all you need if you just want to develop your idea, but to take it anywhere, you need web hosting, servers, coders, developers, etc, who may not be willing to work for free. You need an office, because in many cases investors won't talk to you unless you have a physical address.  Plus remember, the kids have to eat and in many cases pay rent while they're doing all of this.

You're completely ignoring the history of tech start-ups. Go look up the early history of Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook, etc.

Even after things just got off the ground for Bill Gates, look at what he made into one of the largest fortunes in American history:



Yes, in America one can make something of them self with a lot of hard, smart work and a bit of good fortune. This is not the land of hopeless nightmares even though that's apparently where Obama and his supporters are fine with us heading...

Romney offers the following to young folks: A better economic environment, one that is pro-growth, pro-free enterprise and encourages businesses to hire young people.

What Obama offers young people: Being stuck in their parents' basement for the next four years.

Who was president in '78 again? Hmm...
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2012, 10:39:49 pm »
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About the only licit business that I can imagine someone now stating [sic] on $500 is a food cart or door-to-door selling.

And that shows your lack of imagination.  Also bear in mind that virtually all of these college students already own computers, and many already own decent suits.

You need a lot more than a suit and a computer for a tech start-up. Maybe that's all you need if you just want to develop your idea, but to take it anywhere, you need web hosting, servers, coders, developers, etc, who may not be willing to work for free. You need an office, because in many cases investors won't talk to you unless you have a physical address.  Plus remember, the kids have to eat and in many cases pay rent while they're doing all of this.

You're completely ignoring the history of tech start-ups. Go look up the early history of Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook, etc.

Even after things just got off the ground for Bill Gates, look at what he made into one of the largest fortunes in American history:



Yes, in America one can make something of them self with a lot of hard, smart work and a bit of good fortune. This is not the land of hopeless nightmares even though that's apparently where Obama and his supporters are fine with us heading...

Romney offers the following to young folks: A better economic environment, one that is pro-growth, pro-free enterprise and encourages businesses to hire young people.

What Obama offers young people: Being stuck in their parents' basement for the next four years.

Ahh, yes, anyone can start a corporation who has a multi-million dollar trust fund from their banker grandfather.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2012, 10:42:48 pm »
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This type of debate is actually really irritating me. This is the class warfare we are warned about. Why should anyone have to be defensive about any of this?
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« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2012, 10:56:51 pm »
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This type of debate is actually really irritating me. This is the class warfare we are warned about. Why should anyone have to be defensive about any of this?

Being born into money is nothing to be ashamed of. Not understanding that there are other people who aren't, even as an adult past middle age, is.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2012, 11:16:50 pm »
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Yeah, except you're grossly mischaracterizing the situation.
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IDS Ex-Speaker Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2012, 11:29:21 pm »
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Romney offers the following to young folks: A better economic environment, one that is pro-growth, pro-free enterprise and encourages businesses to hire young people.

Which is why Massachusetts leads the nation in job creation? Romney may be many things, but pro business he is not.
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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2012, 11:38:15 pm »
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Romney offers the following to young folks: A better economic environment, one that is pro-growth, pro-free enterprise and encourages businesses to hire young people.

Which is why Massachusetts leads the nation in job creation? Romney may be many things, but pro business he is not.

Uh, dude, I'm no fan of Romney's tenure as governor but he left office over 5 years ago.
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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2012, 11:49:58 pm »
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Romney offers the following to young folks: A better economic environment, one that is pro-growth, pro-free enterprise and encourages businesses to hire young people.

Which is why Massachusetts leads the nation in job creation? Romney may be many things, but pro business he is not.

Uh, dude, I'm no fan of Romney's tenure as governor but he left office over 5 years ago.

If I recall correctly job creation was actually considerably worse under Romney than it is under Patrick, though (not that I'm at all fond of Patrick).
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« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2012, 11:52:29 pm »
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Romney offers the following to young folks: A better economic environment, one that is pro-growth, pro-free enterprise and encourages businesses to hire young people.

Which is why Massachusetts leads the nation in job creation? Romney may be many things, but pro business he is not.

Uh, dude, I'm no fan of Romney's tenure as governor but he left office over 5 years ago.

If I recall correctly job creation was actually considerably worse under Romney than it is under Patrick, though (not that I'm at all fond of Patrick).

Worse in the job creation rankings though certainly not in absolute terms (recession and all).
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« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2012, 03:11:01 am »
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If I recall correctly job creation was actually considerably worse under Romney than it is under Patrick, though (not that I'm at all fond of Patrick).

I rest my case.

So, 'pro business Romney' actually has a terrible record of job creation. Why would we believe that this would change?

If you wanted a 'pro business' president, your choices were Perry or Cain. Not Mitt.
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« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2012, 04:39:31 am »
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This is so typical of hack Democrats who hate Romney with such a passion that they are willing to take almost everything he says out of context and blow it out of all proportion.

No... it's because he's radically and dangerously inept and tone-deaf...
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« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2012, 06:42:09 am »
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This is so typical of hack Democrats who hate Romney with such a passion that they are willing to take almost everything he says out of context and blow it out of all proportion.

No... it's because he's radically and dangerously inept and tone-deaf...
For the Romney fans on here: would it have killed him to say, "if you can, borrow money from your parents."? Would that have ruined his message?
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« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2012, 08:43:55 am »
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This type of debate is actually really irritating me. This is the class warfare we are warned about. Why should anyone have to be defensive about any of this?

People need to know what works and what doesn't. Most business startups fail by one criterion or another -- undercapitalization, some inadequacy of the owners as owner-operators, sub-par earnings, and poor ideas to begin with. Buying out an existing business that someone wants to ditch usually allows one to find out why the business failed to begin with.

...The 'class warfare' that the Right so despises is something that the Corporate Right started -- and won. It decided that pay would be abysmal and that advancement on the job was only for a small, self-selected elite. It decided that it would close out any possible niches of competition. America used to have business opportunities for workers who wanted to leave the proletariat, but those have largely disappeared. Cottage industries have all but vanished.

The working clas must fight back if it is ever to regain any dignity at all.
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« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2012, 08:48:17 am »
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This type of debate is actually really irritating me. This is the class warfare we are warned about. Why should anyone have to be defensive about any of this?

Being born into money is nothing to be ashamed of.

It isn't anything to be 'ashamed' of, but one should be aware that everyone without money aught to hate you for it, and should try to vote to get you off their backs.
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« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2012, 09:24:44 am »
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This is so typical of hack Democrats who hate Romney with such a passion that they are willing to take almost everything he says out of context and blow it out of all proportion.

Oh, okay. So if you post an article about Obama then we can say "This is so typical of hack Republicans who hate Obama with such a passion that they are willing to take almost everything he says out of context and blow it out of all proportion."?

The basis of this thread is nothing less than trolling.
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« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2012, 09:29:10 am »
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This is so typical of hack Democrats who hate Romney with such a passion that they are willing to take almost everything he says out of context and blow it out of all proportion.

Oh, okay. So if you post an article about Obama then we can say "This is so typical of hack Republicans who hate Obama with such a passion that they are willing to take almost everything he says out of context and blow it out of all proportion."?

The basis of this thread is nothing less than trolling.

It is now trolling to criticize the candidate of the opposing party?
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2012, 01:57:05 pm »
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This is so typical of hack Democrats who hate Romney with such a passion that they are willing to take almost everything he says out of context and blow it out of all proportion.

No... it's because he's radically and dangerously inept and tone-deaf...
For the Romney fans on here: would it have killed him to say, "if you can, borrow money from your parents."? Would that have ruined his message?

Not at all. The point of what I'm saying is: That's basically exactly what Romney said. But because he didn't say it in exactly the way the Democrats would think is "socially acceptable," he's dencounced for it. Do you people legitimately beleve that Romney doesn't realize some people don't have money to lend their kids? Of course he's aware of that. But he's talking to an audience of rich university kids, and he made a suggestion about how to maybe start a business. This isn't the end of the world. But because Romney didn't perfectly streamline exactly what he said, the Dems pounce.

I can't wait till Joe Biden gets into the thick of campaigning. Then we'll see how defensive the liberals are too.
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« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2012, 02:10:53 pm »
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The hackery in this thread is hilarious/ridiculous.

Mitt Romney must not be doing too bad if this is what liberals are whining about.
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« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2012, 02:14:55 pm »
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...because Romney didn't perfectly streamline exactly what he said, the Dems pounce.

I can't wait till Joe Biden gets into the thick of campaigning. Then we'll see how defensive the liberals are too.

You miss the point - Romney is criticized for this because of who he is: a world-bestriding, society-dominating rich: pretty much the equivalent of a Duke or Prince in our modern society.  Biden is just about as close to nobody as a former Senator/current VP can be (and anyway is only the VP, not the actual candidate).

Being rich makes Romney the enemy, so that everything he says is judged more stringently.  Arguably the same should have happened to Bush, and did to some extent to his father, but the recent Bush somehow managed to pretend to be a commoner.
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« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2012, 02:15:09 pm »
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This is so typical of hack Democrats who hate Romney with such a passion that they are willing to take almost everything he says out of context and blow it out of all proportion.

No... it's because he's radically and dangerously inept and tone-deaf...
For the Romney fans on here: would it have killed him to say, "if you can, borrow money from your parents."? Would that have ruined his message?

Not at all. The point of what I'm saying is: That's basically exactly what Romney said. But because he didn't say it in exactly the way the Democrats would think is "socially acceptable," he's dencounced for it. Do you people legitimately beleve that Romney doesn't realize some people don't have money to lend their kids? Of course he's aware of that. But he's talking to an audience of rich university kids, and he made a suggestion about how to maybe start a business. This isn't the end of the world. But because Romney didn't perfectly streamline exactly what he said, the Dems pounce.

I can't wait till Joe Biden gets into the thick of campaigning. Then we'll see how defensive the liberals are too.

Otterbein University's tuition is relatively cheap for a private institution and with financial aid is cheaper that instate public institution in some states. I imagine there are rich kids in that audience, and I imagine there are a lot more kids in that audience that are less well off.

Because a school like NYU has tution in excess of 50k, do you think all of it's attendants are rich? Kids of all wealth levels attend all colleges; this isn't the 1700s where you HAD to be rich.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2012, 04:26:56 pm »
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I understand that not everyone's rich. I'm exaggerating to make a point. But the overwhelming majority of the students around that table would have at least come from financially stable families.

"The lowest-income families have lost the most ground, and this is a major factor in their lower rates of college attendance. [...] [T]uition at public four-year colleges and universities represented 13% of income for the lowest-income families in 1980. In 2000, tuition at these colleges and universities equaled 25% of their income.
   
"Despite this decline in affordability, Americans, particularly those from middle- and high-income families, continue to attend college in record numbers. "
(http://www.highereducation.org/reports/losing_ground/ar2.shtml)

Even using these numbers (just ripped 'em off the first thing on Google), the poorest families probably could afford to lend that $500 start-up if need really be.

That aside, the point remains that kids from poorer families really don't attend university. There are exceptions to the rule, but I don't think Mitt Romney should be trounced on for refusing to bend his message for a really small minority of people. After all, he's really just offering a positive message of going out into the world and showing some ingenuity. People are just choosingto miss the forest for the trees. If it was as bad as people here are saying it was, it would be all over the news.

And really, Mitt can't walk in there and talk about people who aren't at the university. A candidate does not go to a college and talk to current students about "the folks that aren't here" (the people who can't afford it). That's like... the ultimate guilt trip that Romney tries to fight: "You should apologize for your success" is not exactly a Republican theme.

Lastly, in response to El muerto se re del degollado:

You make a point that I think strikes at exactly what I'm trying to say. "Romney is criticized for this because of who he is."

^YES! He is being criticized because it's who he is. He is successful. And you're advocating that we hate him--that he's "the enemy"--because he's rich. This is exactly the class warfare I'm talking about. So what? He's rich. He knows how to make money. That's a good thing. And it was from that background that he was offering students advice on how to do the same.
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« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2012, 05:32:56 pm »
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Even using these numbers (just ripped 'em off the first thing on Google), the poorest families probably could afford to lend that $500 start-up if need really be.


I don't know what's more ridiculous. That the poorest families have $500 sitting around to lend to some random startup, or that said startup has much of a chance of success with only a $500 loan funding it and the person starting it not having the right connections.
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« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2012, 12:43:22 am »
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The hackery in this thread is hilarious/ridiculous.

Mitt Romney must not be doing too bad if this is what liberals are whining about.

Being out of touch with reality would seem one of the most blatant signs of ineptitude as an officer-holder. 
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