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Author Topic: What are you politically?  (Read 7493 times)
Beet
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« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2004, 01:42:11 am »
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I am pretty moderate overall but tend to lean into the Social liberal / Economic conservative category.

Socially, I feel that much of politics in this area is just about trying to control other people's lives, and this is unjust. I support civil unions and lean towards support of gay marriage, mostly because this act of gay marriage does not harm anyone inside the marriage or in society. On abortion, I think life begins at first consciousness, I guess that would qualify as middle of the road. I am against government censorship, whether it be from the right or left. While I think that schools should not have mandatory prayer time, I strongly support allowance of voluntary prayer. I don't feel strongly either way about "under God" in the pledge.

Economically, you cannot avoid coercion, whether it be direct or indirect, but excessive government control over the economy is generally worse than too little control. I think I have moved to the right on this issue recently, but still disagree with neoliberal market dogma. Ideology has no place in economics, whether it be communism or market fundamentalism. Economics is an empirical science that does not always conform to accepted theories. A strong private sector is the core of any economy, but the government should provide humanitarian services to the poor and try to provide for equal opportunity for all.

On foreign policy, I mainly believe the civilized world must be united in the war against terror. Trying to change the Middle East is a noble goal, but shrouding a war in false WMD and threat claims, and pretending to avenge Saddam's crimes from 15 years ago, is smacking of dishonesty and disrespect to your allies in the war on terror, and to your own people. You underestimate people's intelligence with such crap. Especially when you aren't fully finishing your job in Afghanistan & supporting dozens of brutal dictatorships all over the world. Just come out and say you want nation-building, and you want to make the Middle East a better place. Finish the job in Afghanistan. Stop butting into the Israel-Palestine conflict by giving billions of dollars to one side. Schedule elections so they're held on time, for Pete's sake. And abandon Hobbesian statecraft for true leadership of a civilized world.
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Platypus
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« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2004, 02:35:32 am »
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SLEC-but the C is centrist, not conservative.
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« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2004, 09:00:34 am »
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Quote
Ah, they're not so far right on social issues, eh? Interesting.

I *would* fall into the largest ideological group not represented by either party in the U.S... Smiley

No Social Conservative Relgious folks are not always wayyy far to the left. You would be suprised how many christians their are against abortion and against gay marriage. They just don't announce that fact to everyone because many Christians are very humble in their political speech.
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« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2004, 09:47:21 am »
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"Economic and social liberal", although I think Im more liberal on social than on economic issues.
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Nation
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« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2004, 11:30:42 am »
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I think I fit in well with Al. Christian Democrat.
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i dont know, but i've been told
that a yankee politician ain't got no soul
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« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2004, 12:38:24 pm »
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I think I fit in well with Al. Christian Democrat.

www.christiansocialist.org.uk
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« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2004, 04:42:24 pm »
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Nice site. If I lived in the UK I would be a Christian Socialist
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Siege40
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« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2004, 04:45:35 pm »
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Socialist Liberal

Siege40
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President - July 1, 2005 - Nov 4, 2005
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« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2004, 07:33:43 pm »
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On behalf of myself, Gustaf, and others, I would like to note for the record that economic conservative/social liberal remains in the lead by a wide margin.

There, now go about your daily lives. Smiley
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WMS
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« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2004, 11:55:10 pm »
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No Social Conservative Relgious folks are not always wayyy far to the left. You would be suprised how many christians their are against abortion and against gay marriage. They just don't announce that fact to everyone because many Christians are very humble in their political speech.

Err, I think there was a miscommunication...I was referring to European Christian Democrats not being all the way Socially Conservative, just sort of center-right like me. Smiley But you are probably right about Christians not announcing how they feel in public. And I am a pro-lifer with a caveat or two, and pro-civil union but not pro-gay marriage, so d*mned if I know where that fits in...
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The political class has demonized the working class because the political class no longer represents the working class.  Neither Republicans or Democrats.
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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2004, 09:05:23 am »
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I'm socially very liberal (I believe in gay marriage, legalisation of Cannabis etc.) and economically fairly liberal (I believe in a free market, private enterprise etc. but don't believe in letting the poor rot on the streets).
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I live in the UK and regard myself as a socially liberal, economic centrist. I vote for the British Labour party and support the Canadian NDP and US Democratic parties.


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Sibboleth
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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2004, 01:51:16 pm »
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Nice site. If I lived in the UK I would be a Christian Socialist

There's a lot in Wales
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Nym90
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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2004, 05:33:43 pm »
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Liberal on both.
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Beef
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« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2004, 05:49:33 pm »
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I'm socially conservative on some issues (marriage, abortion), socially liberal on others (war on drugs).  Economically, I'm a moderate.  I believe in low taxes and that private enterprise is preferable to big government.  I also believe some amount of socialization is a necessary evil - as may be the case with health care in the near future.  I also believe government has a strong regulatory role to play in order to make private enterprise play fair.  I believe in responsible management of the environment.

In other words, I'm a Centrist.
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Beef
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« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2004, 05:58:35 pm »
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On behalf of myself, Gustaf, and others, I would like to note for the record that economic conservative/social liberal remains in the lead by a wide margin.

There, now go about your daily lives. Smiley

I think that, in an abstract, idealistic sense, everyone is an economic conservative/social liberal.  Who *isn't* for freedom?  This was, by far, the most common political philosophy I encountered in college.  People should be free to do what they want, live the way they want, without government interference and taxes.

When you get into the real world, things get more complex.  You start to see the consequences of too much freedom.  You learn that sometimes the absense of government leads to the natural, unjust domination of the strong over the weak.  You learn that some stuff has to be paid for by everyone, and we share a world in which our actions have an effect on everyone else.  Hard-core libertarianism gets softened after time.

Just my $0.02.
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Kodratos
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« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2004, 06:24:03 pm »
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I am a conservative when it comes to both economic and social issues
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« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2004, 06:27:11 pm »
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I am a social liberal and an economic liberal, though I feel more strongly about the social issues.
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Beef
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« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2004, 06:30:40 pm »
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I'm socially very liberal (I believe in gay marriage, legalisation of Cannabis etc.) and economically fairly liberal (I believe in a free market, private enterprise etc. but don't believe in letting the poor rot on the streets).

This brings up a good point: what do we mean by "economically liberal/conservative?"  The American left/right sense, or the European, classical sense?  In the classical sense, liberal means an unfettered free market, but in the American sense, it means the exact opposite.
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Nym90
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« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2004, 07:56:24 pm »
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Great post, Beef. I often disagree with your views but this defense of government is one of the most logical that I have heard in a long time. Government, in many cases, creates more freedom, and often the free market and letting people do whatever they want to, only enables the strong and the wealthy to have unrestricted freedom and creates much less freedom for the poor and the weak. The purpose of government is to balance out inequalities and to ensure equal opportunity for all so that thus the maximum possible freedom for EVERYONE can be attained.

On behalf of myself, Gustaf, and others, I would like to note for the record that economic conservative/social liberal remains in the lead by a wide margin.

There, now go about your daily lives. Smiley

I think that, in an abstract, idealistic sense, everyone is an economic conservative/social liberal.  Who *isn't* for freedom?  This was, by far, the most common political philosophy I encountered in college.  People should be free to do what they want, live the way they want, without government interference and taxes.

When you get into the real world, things get more complex.  You start to see the consequences of too much freedom.  You learn that sometimes the absense of government leads to the natural, unjust domination of the strong over the weak.  You learn that some stuff has to be paid for by everyone, and we share a world in which our actions have an effect on everyone else.  Hard-core libertarianism gets softened after time.

Just my $0.02.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2004, 08:46:34 pm »
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I am a social moderate.  Pro-life except in case of RILM, because I don't want to make that decision for someone.  Pro affirmative action.  Anti gay marriage.  For some gun regulation.

Economic moderate.  Tax cuts to fuel economic growth and generate more revenue.  Government should invest heavily in infrastrucutre: build power plants, lay fiber optic and high speed cable in rural areas, improve transportation infrastructure.  On an old thread in General Politics started by StatesRights you can read my universal health care plan, which isn't very conservative at all.

Very hawkish on foreign policy.  Pro war with Afghanistan and Iraq.  Pro-invading Syria.  Pro CIA-coup in Iran.  Anti China trade.  Anti North Korea food aid.

JohnDFord,

After reading your post on your poltical views, as well as some others you've made in recent days, let me say that if I was 15 years younger and unmarried, I would propose to you sight unseen!!! LOL

You even KNOW Baseball! And I don't mean a basic understanding of Baseball, I mean you have detailed knowledge which you displayed rather impressively in the Baseball thread a few days ago. For example, you correctly explained that Yankee Stadium is not the pitcher's haven that the Dodgers have in Chavez Ravine...that was great stuff.

Between your political views and your love of baseball...perfect woman...LOL
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MarkDel
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« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2004, 09:00:51 pm »
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Quote from:  link=board=1;threadid=1560;start=45#msg55441 date=

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That was cruel...LOL
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Beef
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« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2004, 11:44:44 pm »
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Great post, Beef. I often disagree with your views but this defense of government is one of the most logical that I have heard in a long time. Government, in many cases, creates more freedom, and often the free market and letting people do whatever they want to, only enables the strong and the wealthy to have unrestricted freedom and creates much less freedom for the poor and the weak. The purpose of government is to balance out inequalities and to ensure equal opportunity for all so that thus the maximum possible freedom for EVERYONE can be attained.

Thanks!  I'm sure we would agree on a lot of things, and there is a reason my avatar isn't blue Smiley.

The ironic thing is that unfettered capitalism is that it ultimately leads to large monopolies and the elimination of competition, and it's competition that makes capitalism work so well.

I'd still say I have libertarian leanings - I believe that government mainly exists to protect us from force and fraud.  But a little bit of state "tyranny" can save us from a lot of private tyranny.
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« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2004, 08:24:28 am »
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Please explain why Syria should be invaded?!!! Unbelievable!!!!!

People here are sounding more like the Third Reicht everyday! Afhghanistan, Iraq, Canada and now Syria! Where's next?
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I live in the UK and regard myself as a socially liberal, economic centrist. I vote for the British Labour party and support the Canadian NDP and US Democratic parties.


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StatesRights
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« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2004, 08:30:57 am »
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Syria is sending hundreds of terrorists into Iraq on a daily basis. Its time to hold the gun to their stomach and tell them, "Tighten down on your borders, or we will come and stop it."
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Gustaf
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« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2004, 09:08:19 am »
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On behalf of myself, Gustaf, and others, I would like to note for the record that economic conservative/social liberal remains in the lead by a wide margin.

There, now go about your daily lives. Smiley

I think that, in an abstract, idealistic sense, everyone is an economic conservative/social liberal.  Who *isn't* for freedom?  This was, by far, the most common political philosophy I encountered in college.  People should be free to do what they want, live the way they want, without government interference and taxes.

When you get into the real world, things get more complex.  You start to see the consequences of too much freedom.  You learn that sometimes the absense of government leads to the natural, unjust domination of the strong over the weak.  You learn that some stuff has to be paid for by everyone, and we share a world in which our actions have an effect on everyone else.  Hard-core libertarianism gets softened after time.

Just my $0.02.

Very true. That's what happened to me. Smiley
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This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

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