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Poll
Question: What punishment do you think a convict found guilty of murder, rape, and pedophilia should get?
Republican: Death Penalty   -14 (12%)
Republican: Life in Prison w/out Parole   -17 (14.5%)
Democrat: Death Penalty   -8 (6.8%)
Democrat: Life in Prison w/out Parole   -41 (35%)
independent/third party: Death Penalty   -13 (11.1%)
independent/third party: Life in Prison w/out Parole   -24 (20.5%)
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Total Voters: 117

Author Topic: Death Penalty Question  (Read 6750 times)
opebo
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« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2012, 02:23:25 pm »
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But the death penalty saves all the time and effort of 'reforming' the worthless gutter-trash of society, most of whom are so evil that the death penalty in its present form is too good for them anyway.

This is precisely how I feel about the rich, E.D.
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« Reply #76 on: September 09, 2012, 07:27:07 am »
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Why on earth do you think these crimes warrant 'life imprisonment without possibility of parole'?  I certainly don't.
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« Reply #77 on: September 10, 2012, 06:37:31 am »
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Hell no, not when progressive penal systems like that of Norway have proven effective at rehabilitating criminals back into being productive members of society.

Anyway, though, if someone can be rehabilitated, then executing them would be a purposeless waste of life, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they aren't at fault.

But the death penalty saves all the time and effort of 'reforming' the worthless gutter-trash of society, most of whom are so evil that the death penalty in its present form is too good for them anyway.

Lol.... Moron.

Forgive me for having no sympathy for serial killers, rapists and child molesters....but of course, its 'societies' fault.
You forgot drug traffickers.
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« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2012, 12:01:01 pm »
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As noted by the poster above, once you start trying to decide who deserves to live or not (apart from the situation where the other person is trying to kill you or someone else, ie. self defense or possibly war), you find out quickly that many people don't. From there you can fall into support of genicide and eugenics and a whole bunch of other terrible things to become the evil you were once trying to stand against or start, perhaps to recognize the validity of the following quote from JR Tolkien that Galdalf says to Frodo in the Fellowship of the Ring:

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"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends."
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« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2012, 04:11:57 pm »
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The death penalty is, as Captain Jean-Luc Picard put it, "barbaric".  We're a civilized and intelligent people, we're better than that.

And as a Christian, I cannot morally back the death penalty.  People who do even the most evil of things have the possibility of repenting and becoming good people (and in that case, usually speaking for others to change as well), and though it is rare it does happen.  To take that possibility away from someone before their last natural breath, to me, is morally criminal.

And then comes the fact that - this hypothetical individual is "convicted beyond a reasonable doubt" of these crimes, you virtually never know 100% for sure whether they did it.  I believe it's something like 1 in 7 victims of the death penalty turn out to be innocent.  Our legal system needs to show that it is truly just, and given the possibility of even one innocent person being put to death unnaturally (whereas otherwise there could be more time to come up with the evidence that they truly are innocent) is against everything the judicial system is supposed to stand for.

I know the Supreme Court upheld murder convicts getting the death penalty of not being "cruel and unusual" - I fail to see how killing someone, ending their existence on this Earth without their consent, is not cruel.
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« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2012, 07:05:45 pm »
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And as a Christian, I cannot morally back the death penalty.  People who do even the most evil of things have the possibility of repenting and becoming good people (and in that case, usually speaking for others to change as well), and though it is rare it does happen.  To take that possibility away from someone before their last natural breath, to me, is morally criminal.

There is no secular argument of substance against legalizing gay marriage. Even if I didn't have my own personal reasons for supporting it, there is no way I could be opposed. Of course I am in favor.

Exactly (I agree as a Christian).

And if you want to go by "traditional marriage" in the bible, then women who are raped should have to be having their father pay the rapist who will then go forth to marry her.

There is no logical reason to oppose the legalization of same sex marriages.  If your church or institution doesn't want to perform the ceremony, fine, but I have yet to see a logical argument for outlawing it all together.

So why do you advocate considering religious beliefs on one issue but not the other?(For the record I agree with you on one of these two issues but not the other).
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« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2012, 08:26:45 pm »
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And as a Christian, I cannot morally back the death penalty.  People who do even the most evil of things have the possibility of repenting and becoming good people (and in that case, usually speaking for others to change as well), and though it is rare it does happen.  To take that possibility away from someone before their last natural breath, to me, is morally criminal.

There is no secular argument of substance against legalizing gay marriage. Even if I didn't have my own personal reasons for supporting it, there is no way I could be opposed. Of course I am in favor.

Exactly (I agree as a Christian).

And if you want to go by "traditional marriage" in the bible, then women who are raped should have to be having their father pay the rapist who will then go forth to marry her.

There is no logical reason to oppose the legalization of same sex marriages.  If your church or institution doesn't want to perform the ceremony, fine, but I have yet to see a logical argument for outlawing it all together.

So why do you advocate considering religious beliefs on one issue but not the other?(For the record I agree with you on one of these two issues but not the other).

What issue is "the other"?
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« Reply #82 on: September 22, 2012, 02:53:11 pm »
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And as a Christian, I cannot morally back the death penalty.  People who do even the most evil of things have the possibility of repenting and becoming good people (and in that case, usually speaking for others to change as well), and though it is rare it does happen.  To take that possibility away from someone before their last natural breath, to me, is morally criminal.

There is no secular argument of substance against legalizing gay marriage. Even if I didn't have my own personal reasons for supporting it, there is no way I could be opposed. Of course I am in favor.

Exactly (I agree as a Christian).

And if you want to go by "traditional marriage" in the bible, then women who are raped should have to be having their father pay the rapist who will then go forth to marry her.

There is no logical reason to oppose the legalization of same sex marriages.  If your church or institution doesn't want to perform the ceremony, fine, but I have yet to see a logical argument for outlawing it all together.

So why do you advocate considering religious beliefs on one issue but not the other?(For the record I agree with you on one of these two issues but not the other).

What issue is "the other"?

I agree with you on capital punishment but not same sex marriage.

The reason I wanted to point this out is that I think there is some contradiction between saying basically that same sex marriage should be legal since we shouldn't legislate morality but then saying the death penalty is immoral so it should be illegal. It's somewhat of a devil's advocate argument on my part because I do not support the death penalty, but anyway that was the point I'm trying to make.
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angus
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« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2012, 05:46:59 pm »
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We haven't had a poll on this subject in quite a while, though I am well aware we already have a thread on the topic...  

I hadn't noticed this topic yet.  I voted with the Republicans, for although I am currently an unaffiliated voter, I was a registered Republican when the poll was made.  

How did I vote?  Well, to be honest, I grudgingly voted for life without parole, but grudgingly is the keyword.  You only offered two options:  death or life.  I don't support capital punishment under any circumstances, so I didn't vote for that one.  Of course, my opposition for capital punishment doesn't mean, "hey, let's spend hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to put someone in a situation in which they'll not only be brutalized daily but also get chances to murder and brutalize others on a daily basis, and, as an added benefit, they'll all be treated in such a way that if any of them do ever get to see the outside again, they'll come out so emotionally and physically scarred yet intellectually wise, that they'll be even more efficient and ruthless criminals than they were when we incarcerated them."  

Nevertheless, your poll was at least honest, in the sense that those are pretty much the only two choices juries have, most of the time.  Given those choices, I'll go for life in prison.  So count me for R-Life in prison w/o parole.
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« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2012, 06:15:02 pm »
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I reluctantly support the death penalty,but I've heard that solitary confinement can almost be worse than death when you're locked up in a cell for 23 hours a day by yourself for years on end.
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« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2012, 03:57:00 pm »
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And as a Christian, I cannot morally back the death penalty.  People who do even the most evil of things have the possibility of repenting and becoming good people (and in that case, usually speaking for others to change as well), and though it is rare it does happen.  To take that possibility away from someone before their last natural breath, to me, is morally criminal.

There is no secular argument of substance against legalizing gay marriage. Even if I didn't have my own personal reasons for supporting it, there is no way I could be opposed. Of course I am in favor.

Exactly (I agree as a Christian).

And if you want to go by "traditional marriage" in the bible, then women who are raped should have to be having their father pay the rapist who will then go forth to marry her.

There is no logical reason to oppose the legalization of same sex marriages.  If your church or institution doesn't want to perform the ceremony, fine, but I have yet to see a logical argument for outlawing it all together.

So why do you advocate considering religious beliefs on one issue but not the other?(For the record I agree with you on one of these two issues but not the other).

What issue is "the other"?

I agree with you on capital punishment but not same sex marriage.

The reason I wanted to point this out is that I think there is some contradiction between saying basically that same sex marriage should be legal since we shouldn't legislate morality but then saying the death penalty is immoral so it should be illegal. It's somewhat of a devil's advocate argument on my part because I do not support the death penalty, but anyway that was the point I'm trying to make.
I seem to recall there being a commandment against murder, but not against gays. I don't think it's hypocritical to be Christian and support gay marriage. You allow adulterers to marry. And for those who say "The Bible says homosexuality is an abomination!":
Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord (dishonesty is an abomination) (Proverbs 12:22)

Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not  And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? (Stealing, Adultery, breaking covenants, and worshipping other gods are abomination) Jeremiah 7:9-10

Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination (oppressing the poor and needy is an abomination) Ezekiel 18:12

All of these people are allowed to marry. Why can't gays?
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« Reply #86 on: September 25, 2012, 04:54:40 pm »
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And as a Christian, I cannot morally back the death penalty.  People who do even the most evil of things have the possibility of repenting and becoming good people (and in that case, usually speaking for others to change as well), and though it is rare it does happen.  To take that possibility away from someone before their last natural breath, to me, is morally criminal.

There is no secular argument of substance against legalizing gay marriage. Even if I didn't have my own personal reasons for supporting it, there is no way I could be opposed. Of course I am in favor.

Exactly (I agree as a Christian).

And if you want to go by "traditional marriage" in the bible, then women who are raped should have to be having their father pay the rapist who will then go forth to marry her.

There is no logical reason to oppose the legalization of same sex marriages.  If your church or institution doesn't want to perform the ceremony, fine, but I have yet to see a logical argument for outlawing it all together.

So why do you advocate considering religious beliefs on one issue but not the other?(For the record I agree with you on one of these two issues but not the other).

What issue is "the other"?

I agree with you on capital punishment but not same sex marriage.

The reason I wanted to point this out is that I think there is some contradiction between saying basically that same sex marriage should be legal since we shouldn't legislate morality but then saying the death penalty is immoral so it should be illegal. It's somewhat of a devil's advocate argument on my part because I do not support the death penalty, but anyway that was the point I'm trying to make.
I seem to recall there being a commandment against murder, but not against gays. I don't think it's hypocritical to be Christian and support gay marriage. You allow adulterers to marry. And for those who say "The Bible says homosexuality is an abomination!":
Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord (dishonesty is an abomination) (Proverbs 12:22)

Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not  And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? (Stealing, Adultery, breaking covenants, and worshipping other gods are abomination) Jeremiah 7:9-10

Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination (oppressing the poor and needy is an abomination) Ezekiel 18:12

All of these people are allowed to marry. Why can't gays?

The Bible, both Old and New Testaments, repeatedly says that homosexuality is a sin.  Read Leviticus 18:22 and Romans 1:26-27.  That's not saying that all homosexuals are bad; after all, you can hate homosexuality without hating homosexuals.
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« Reply #87 on: September 26, 2012, 09:19:20 am »
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And as a Christian, I cannot morally back the death penalty.  People who do even the most evil of things have the possibility of repenting and becoming good people (and in that case, usually speaking for others to change as well), and though it is rare it does happen.  To take that possibility away from someone before their last natural breath, to me, is morally criminal.

There is no secular argument of substance against legalizing gay marriage. Even if I didn't have my own personal reasons for supporting it, there is no way I could be opposed. Of course I am in favor.

Exactly (I agree as a Christian).

And if you want to go by "traditional marriage" in the bible, then women who are raped should have to be having their father pay the rapist who will then go forth to marry her.

There is no logical reason to oppose the legalization of same sex marriages.  If your church or institution doesn't want to perform the ceremony, fine, but I have yet to see a logical argument for outlawing it all together.

So why do you advocate considering religious beliefs on one issue but not the other?(For the record I agree with you on one of these two issues but not the other).

What issue is "the other"?

I agree with you on capital punishment but not same sex marriage.

The reason I wanted to point this out is that I think there is some contradiction between saying basically that same sex marriage should be legal since we shouldn't legislate morality but then saying the death penalty is immoral so it should be illegal. It's somewhat of a devil's advocate argument on my part because I do not support the death penalty, but anyway that was the point I'm trying to make.
I seem to recall there being a commandment against murder, but not against gays. I don't think it's hypocritical to be Christian and support gay marriage. You allow adulterers to marry. And for those who say "The Bible says homosexuality is an abomination!":
Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord (dishonesty is an abomination) (Proverbs 12:22)

Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not  And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? (Stealing, Adultery, breaking covenants, and worshipping other gods are abomination) Jeremiah 7:9-10

Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination (oppressing the poor and needy is an abomination) Ezekiel 18:12

All of these people are allowed to marry. Why can't gays?

The Bible, both Old and New Testaments, repeatedly says that homosexuality is a sin.  Read Leviticus 18:22 and Romans 1:26-27.  That's not saying that all homosexuals are bad; after all, you can hate homosexuality without hating homosexuals.
You could also oppose religious gay marriage but not oppose civil gay marriage. The state should be allowed to marry gays, even if the religions don't have to. We have separation of church and state, after all.
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« Reply #88 on: September 26, 2012, 11:12:07 pm »
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And as a Christian, I cannot morally back the death penalty.  People who do even the most evil of things have the possibility of repenting and becoming good people (and in that case, usually speaking for others to change as well), and though it is rare it does happen.  To take that possibility away from someone before their last natural breath, to me, is morally criminal.

There is no secular argument of substance against legalizing gay marriage. Even if I didn't have my own personal reasons for supporting it, there is no way I could be opposed. Of course I am in favor.

Exactly (I agree as a Christian).

And if you want to go by "traditional marriage" in the bible, then women who are raped should have to be having their father pay the rapist who will then go forth to marry her.

There is no logical reason to oppose the legalization of same sex marriages.  If your church or institution doesn't want to perform the ceremony, fine, but I have yet to see a logical argument for outlawing it all together.

So why do you advocate considering religious beliefs on one issue but not the other?(For the record I agree with you on one of these two issues but not the other).

What issue is "the other"?

I agree with you on capital punishment but not same sex marriage.

The reason I wanted to point this out is that I think there is some contradiction between saying basically that same sex marriage should be legal since we shouldn't legislate morality but then saying the death penalty is immoral so it should be illegal. It's somewhat of a devil's advocate argument on my part because I do not support the death penalty, but anyway that was the point I'm trying to make.
I seem to recall there being a commandment against murder, but not against gays. I don't think it's hypocritical to be Christian and support gay marriage. You allow adulterers to marry. And for those who say "The Bible says homosexuality is an abomination!":
Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord (dishonesty is an abomination) (Proverbs 12:22)

Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not  And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? (Stealing, Adultery, breaking covenants, and worshipping other gods are abomination) Jeremiah 7:9-10

Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination (oppressing the poor and needy is an abomination) Ezekiel 18:12

All of these people are allowed to marry. Why can't gays?

The Bible, both Old and New Testaments, repeatedly says that homosexuality is a sin.  Read Leviticus 18:22 and Romans 1:26-27.  That's not saying that all homosexuals are bad; after all, you can hate homosexuality without hating homosexuals.
You could also oppose religious gay marriage but not oppose civil gay marriage. The state should be allowed to marry gays, even if the religions don't have to. We have separation of church and state, after all.

Yes, we do. But if that's your logic it doesn't make sense to turn around and oppose capital punishment because it's immoral. It would have to be opposed for secular reasons (which they are no shortage of). But the morality argument is null once you decide that you can't legislate morality.
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« Reply #89 on: September 27, 2012, 04:03:15 pm »
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And as a Christian, I cannot morally back the death penalty.  People who do even the most evil of things have the possibility of repenting and becoming good people (and in that case, usually speaking for others to change as well), and though it is rare it does happen.  To take that possibility away from someone before their last natural breath, to me, is morally criminal.

There is no secular argument of substance against legalizing gay marriage. Even if I didn't have my own personal reasons for supporting it, there is no way I could be opposed. Of course I am in favor.

Exactly (I agree as a Christian).

And if you want to go by "traditional marriage" in the bible, then women who are raped should have to be having their father pay the rapist who will then go forth to marry her.

There is no logical reason to oppose the legalization of same sex marriages.  If your church or institution doesn't want to perform the ceremony, fine, but I have yet to see a logical argument for outlawing it all together.

So why do you advocate considering religious beliefs on one issue but not the other?(For the record I agree with you on one of these two issues but not the other).

What issue is "the other"?

I agree with you on capital punishment but not same sex marriage.

The reason I wanted to point this out is that I think there is some contradiction between saying basically that same sex marriage should be legal since we shouldn't legislate morality but then saying the death penalty is immoral so it should be illegal. It's somewhat of a devil's advocate argument on my part because I do not support the death penalty, but anyway that was the point I'm trying to make.
I seem to recall there being a commandment against murder, but not against gays. I don't think it's hypocritical to be Christian and support gay marriage. You allow adulterers to marry. And for those who say "The Bible says homosexuality is an abomination!":
Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord (dishonesty is an abomination) (Proverbs 12:22)

Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not  And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? (Stealing, Adultery, breaking covenants, and worshipping other gods are abomination) Jeremiah 7:9-10

Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination (oppressing the poor and needy is an abomination) Ezekiel 18:12

All of these people are allowed to marry. Why can't gays?

The Bible, both Old and New Testaments, repeatedly says that homosexuality is a sin.  Read Leviticus 18:22 and Romans 1:26-27.  That's not saying that all homosexuals are bad; after all, you can hate homosexuality without hating homosexuals.
You could also oppose religious gay marriage but not oppose civil gay marriage. The state should be allowed to marry gays, even if the religions don't have to. We have separation of church and state, after all.

Yes, we do. But if that's your logic it doesn't make sense to turn around and oppose capital punishment because it's immoral. It would have to be opposed for secular reasons (which they are no shortage of). But the morality argument is null once you decide that you can't legislate morality.
True. I probably am not the best person to argue this, as my religion (Reform Judaism) supports gay marriage. You have a point, but yes, there are enough secular reasons to oppose it that I do.
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A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on-John F. Kennedy 1917-1963
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« Reply #90 on: September 30, 2012, 12:44:42 pm »
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Democrat/Death Penalty
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« Reply #91 on: October 01, 2012, 02:47:38 am »
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Democrat/Life in Prison
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« Reply #92 on: October 08, 2012, 02:15:03 am »
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Im Pro-Life/Anti-Death Penalty.
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« Reply #93 on: October 08, 2012, 08:46:42 am »
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Republican, and I support it ONLY in cases of 1st degree murder.
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« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2012, 09:51:18 am »
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Death penalty.

I don't like the use of "but what about life without parole?" to sway people in this matter. There are crimes for which allowing the offender to continue living, even in prison without the chance of parole, would be too generous.

Your compassion is overwhelming. 

Republican/Life with the possibility of parole.
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« Reply #95 on: October 31, 2012, 06:08:09 pm »
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I believe the death penalty is to weak & i support a large expansion of the death penalty. i am a huge supporter of capital punishment.
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« Reply #96 on: November 01, 2012, 01:18:04 am »
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Im Pro-Life/Anti-Death Penalty.
The only civilized position. 
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« Reply #97 on: November 02, 2012, 01:47:19 am »
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Im Pro-Life/Anti-Death Penalty.
The only civilized position. 


more like the worst position ever.
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« Reply #98 on: November 02, 2012, 01:49:14 am »
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Im Pro-Life/Anti-Death Penalty.
The only civilized position. 


more like the worst position ever.
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« Reply #99 on: November 02, 2012, 01:51:22 am »
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Im Pro-Life/Anti-Death Penalty.
The only civilized position. 


more like the worst position ever.
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What's your angle, newbie?

opposing the death penalty is dume how you can oppose killing our enemies if you oppose your nothing but a hippy daisy picker we need to expand death penalty you kill once you get the death penalty.
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