Koran burning vs Flag burning
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 02:25:49 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Koran burning vs Flag burning
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: Koran burning vs Flag burning  (Read 4265 times)
CLARENCE 2015!
clarence
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,927
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: May 01, 2012, 01:21:23 PM »





It amazes me that when a rogue pastor (whose church is about 15 minutes from where I live) announces he will burn Korans- he is universally condemned as a hateful bigot

Meanwhile- there is a debate about flag burning in this country. Most of the same folks who get all pissy pantsed about the Koran being burnt are the first to defend the rights of protesters to burn the flag that drapes the coffins of those killed defending their right to do so... I see no universal condemnation or any major national figure raising a fuss over the Occupy protesters burning our flag

For the record- I don't defend Koran burning. I see it as unnecessary incitement of hatred and puts our service members at risk... but it is free speech assuming it was purchased and is owned by the people burning it

My question is this- if you find burning the Koran wrong- why is burning my flag ok?
Logged
k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,753
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 01:26:32 PM »

The Koran is the holy text of a religion and a symbol of faith for billions.

The US flag is the symbol of an artificial construct.
Logged
politicus
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,174
Denmark


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 01:35:08 PM »

The Koran is the holy text of a religion and a symbol of faith for billions.

The US flag is the symbol of an artificial construct.
To atheists religion is an artificial construct as well. And to nationalists the flag is "holy"/sacrosant and a symbol of their faith in the nation.
So its a false dichotomy, since nationalism is basically a secular religion.
Logged
Joe Republic
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 40,044
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 01:38:29 PM »

Both are wrong, because it's nothing more than real-life trolling.  I guess it should still be allowed though; freedom of expression and so forth.
Logged
Chaddyr23
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 479
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.19, S: -5.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 01:47:24 PM »

Woah you're in North Central FL?! I'm in Gainesville.
Anyways, I can care less what Pastor Terry Jones wanted to burn. There's no law saying he can't burn it but there's consequences that will happen, same thing with flag burning. However, I think he should be free to burn whatever he wants whether it's the flag or The Koran.
Logged
Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,298
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 01:56:08 PM »

Neither would be big issues if the media didn't give them so much attention.
Logged
Redalgo
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,681
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 02:02:13 PM »

The symbolic / sacred relevance of both objects are socially constructed. However, whereas the burning of the Koran is liable to further strain relations between people of the States and West Asia while driving a wedge between culturally distinct social groups - posing a threat to the civic nationalism which arguably underlies American solidarity - I think that when Americans burn the flag of their country it is more indicative of strong dissent to public policy or the current regime in power. It is a distasteful form of protest and lacks tact in my opinion but on the whole expresses ill-will toward a government or its actions rather than all Americans in general. The burning of a U.S. flag by non-Americans is more offensive. Nonetheless, folks who desecrate sacred symbols obviously have reasons for doing so. Those ought to be studied and discussed in an empathetic, open-minded manner rather than met with immediate, knee-jerk condemnation.
Logged
CLARENCE 2015!
clarence
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,927
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 02:14:11 PM »

Woah you're in North Central FL?! I'm in Gainesville.
Anyways, I can care less what Pastor Terry Jones wanted to burn. There's no law saying he can't burn it but there's consequences that will happen, same thing with flag burning. However, I think he should be free to burn whatever he wants whether it's the flag or The Koran.
I'm in Newberry- are you a student?
Logged
Snowstalker Mk. II
Snowstalker
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,414
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.10, S: -4.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 02:41:12 PM »

Both are disrespectful actions which should be completely legal.
Logged
Indy Texas
independentTX
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,258
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 03:15:38 PM »

There is a difference between something being illegal and something being generally viewed as wrong by most of society. It's "wrong" to burn a Koran but it shouldn't be illegal. It's "wrong" to burn a flag but it shouldn't be illegal. It's wrong to say you're going to meet someone for lunch and then never show up, but that shouldn't be illegal.
Logged
Chaddyr23
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 479
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.19, S: -5.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 03:20:36 PM »

Woah you're in North Central FL?! I'm in Gainesville.
Anyways, I can care less what Pastor Terry Jones wanted to burn. There's no law saying he can't burn it but there's consequences that will happen, same thing with flag burning. However, I think he should be free to burn whatever he wants whether it's the flag or The Koran.
I'm in Newberry- are you a student?

Yeah Im a 3rd year Chem-E major at UF.
Logged
Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
GM3PRP
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,081
Greece
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 03:21:08 PM »

Both are wrong, because it's nothing more than real-life trolling.  I guess it should still be allowed though; freedom of expression and so forth.

This ^^^^^^  Inks should infract them 10 points a book/flag Smiley
Logged
Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,978
Canada


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 03:37:20 PM »

Burning the Koran puts a lot more people's lives in jeopardy.
Logged
Sbane
sbane
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,303


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 03:48:16 PM »

I'm not going to condemn or defend either. It's really just trolling and I personally don't care if a bible or a koran or a flag is burned. Of course burning a koran does put a lot of troops in harms way for no good reason and that's a good reason to condemn that idiot in your state.

Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,089
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 03:49:52 PM »

I agree with the majority here, burning either is "wrong" but shouldn't be illegal.
Logged
Хahar 🤔
Xahar
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,731
Bangladesh


Political Matrix
E: -6.77, S: 0.61

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 03:58:12 PM »

To equate the Koran with a flag is deeply insulting.
Logged
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,175
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2012, 04:04:44 PM »

I personally resent people who burn things like Korans and flags and Bibles and whatnot and I don't believe that one action should be seen as any "less bad" or more justified than the other, but just plain being a dick shouldn't be illegal.
Logged
Sbane
sbane
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,303


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 04:19:13 PM »

To equate the Koran with a flag is deeply insulting.

I guess the question to ask Clarence would be whether he thinks burning a bible is worse than the flag, or the same. And if it's worse, then why isn't burning the Koran worse as well.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,714
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 10:01:02 PM »

Neither offends me in the slightest.

To equate the Koran with a flag is deeply insulting.

I guess the question to ask Clarence would be whether he thinks burning a bible is worse than the flag, or the same. And if it's worse, then why isn't burning the Koran worse as well.

The two aren't really comparable actually, the status of the Koran in Islam and its nature has reasons why burning it would be far more offensive to Muslims than burning the Bible is to Christians, though even if I were Muslim I doubt I'd get too bent out of shape over Koran burning. I see being offended by desecration of any symbol (outside of the stupidity and nature of it just being real life trolling) to be essentially idolatry.
Logged
fezzyfestoon
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,204
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2012, 11:47:09 PM »

Both are wrong, because it's nothing more than real-life trolling.  I guess it should still be allowed though; freedom of expression and so forth.

Precisely
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,089
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2012, 02:10:48 AM »

To equate the Koran with a flag is deeply insulting.
Maybe to you and your friends, but to the rest of us (and more importantly, the law), it's just a book.  Thankfully it's not against the law to insult someone.
Burning the Koran puts a lot more people's lives in jeopardy.
Indeed, but we shouldn't ban things because asshats might get violent.  It would set a bad precedent.
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,615


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 02:15:20 AM »

You should be free to burn your own flags or Korans or Bibles wherever and whenever wouldn't be a fire or smoke hazard.
Logged
John Dibble
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,733
Japan


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2012, 08:19:09 AM »

Personally I find burning a Koran more offensive than burning a US flag for two reasons:

1. The Koran is a book. A book is a container of ideas and knowledge. Even if the contents of a particular book are wrong, factually or morally, I believe there is an intrinsic good to having a free marketplace of ideas where they can compete on their merits. As such book burning just feels kind of wrong.

2. The US flag is supposed to be a symbol of freedom. Freedom to the extent that you have the freedom to burn that symbol. Some flag burners happen to actually love the country, so the action also tends to have a much difference context than Koran burning.

Neither should be illegal provided you own the actual object, of course.
Logged
Insula Dei
belgiansocialist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,326
Belgium


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2012, 08:24:42 AM »

Obviously the stakes are much higher for Muslims when a Koran is burned than for Americans when their flag is burned.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,714
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2012, 08:54:16 AM »

Here's an example of why being offended by either is silly:

On my iPod Touch I have a Bible app, and an election news app where the icon is an American flag. Would it therefore be offensive to restore my iPod? Or not to do so but delete either app? See how silly that would be?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.053 seconds with 13 queries.