Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 25, 2015, 10:48:49 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: True Federalist, Small Business Owner of Any Repute, Badger)
| | |-+  Koran burning vs Flag burning
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Koran burning vs Flag burning  (Read 1843 times)
clarence
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4764
United States


View Profile
« on: May 01, 2012, 01:21:23 pm »
Ignore





It amazes me that when a rogue pastor (whose church is about 15 minutes from where I live) announces he will burn Korans- he is universally condemned as a hateful bigot

Meanwhile- there is a debate about flag burning in this country. Most of the same folks who get all pissy pantsed about the Koran being burnt are the first to defend the rights of protesters to burn the flag that drapes the coffins of those killed defending their right to do so... I see no universal condemnation or any major national figure raising a fuss over the Occupy protesters burning our flag

For the record- I don't defend Koran burning. I see it as unnecessary incitement of hatred and puts our service members at risk... but it is free speech assuming it was purchased and is owned by the people burning it

My question is this- if you find burning the Koran wrong- why is burning my flag ok?
Logged

k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11972
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 01:26:32 pm »
Ignore

The Koran is the holy text of a religion and a symbol of faith for billions.

The US flag is the symbol of an artificial construct.
Logged

Charlotte Hebdo
politicus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8670
Denmark


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 01:35:08 pm »
Ignore

The Koran is the holy text of a religion and a symbol of faith for billions.

The US flag is the symbol of an artificial construct.
To atheists religion is an artificial construct as well. And to nationalists the flag is "holy"/sacrosant and a symbol of their faith in the nation.
So its a false dichotomy, since nationalism is basically a secular religion.
Logged

J Rpblc
Joe Republic
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31816
Kiribati


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 01:38:29 pm »
Ignore

Both are wrong, because it's nothing more than real-life trolling.  I guess it should still be allowed though; freedom of expression and so forth.
Logged



Real Americans (and Big Sky Bob) demand to know.


[Y]ou are not going to change my mind or even cause me to think.
Chaddyr23
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 342
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.19, S: -5.83

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 01:47:24 pm »
Ignore

Woah you're in North Central FL?! I'm in Gainesville.
Anyways, I can care less what Pastor Terry Jones wanted to burn. There's no law saying he can't burn it but there's consequences that will happen, same thing with flag burning. However, I think he should be free to burn whatever he wants whether it's the flag or The Koran.
Logged
Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9021
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 01:56:08 pm »
Ignore

Neither would be big issues if the media didn't give them so much attention.
Logged
Redalgo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2693
United States


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 02:02:13 pm »
Ignore

The symbolic / sacred relevance of both objects are socially constructed. However, whereas the burning of the Koran is liable to further strain relations between people of the States and West Asia while driving a wedge between culturally distinct social groups - posing a threat to the civic nationalism which arguably underlies American solidarity - I think that when Americans burn the flag of their country it is more indicative of strong dissent to public policy or the current regime in power. It is a distasteful form of protest and lacks tact in my opinion but on the whole expresses ill-will toward a government or its actions rather than all Americans in general. The burning of a U.S. flag by non-Americans is more offensive. Nonetheless, folks who desecrate sacred symbols obviously have reasons for doing so. Those ought to be studied and discussed in an empathetic, open-minded manner rather than met with immediate, knee-jerk condemnation.
Logged
clarence
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4764
United States


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 02:14:11 pm »
Ignore

Woah you're in North Central FL?! I'm in Gainesville.
Anyways, I can care less what Pastor Terry Jones wanted to burn. There's no law saying he can't burn it but there's consequences that will happen, same thing with flag burning. However, I think he should be free to burn whatever he wants whether it's the flag or The Koran.
I'm in Newberry- are you a student?
Logged

Snowstalker
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 19378
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -8.71, S: -5.22

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 02:41:12 pm »
Ignore

Both are disrespectful actions which should be completely legal.
Logged

Indy Texas
independentTX
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6343


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 03:15:38 pm »
Ignore

There is a difference between something being illegal and something being generally viewed as wrong by most of society. It's "wrong" to burn a Koran but it shouldn't be illegal. It's "wrong" to burn a flag but it shouldn't be illegal. It's wrong to say you're going to meet someone for lunch and then never show up, but that shouldn't be illegal.
Logged

Chaddyr23
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 342
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.19, S: -5.83

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 03:20:36 pm »
Ignore

Woah you're in North Central FL?! I'm in Gainesville.
Anyways, I can care less what Pastor Terry Jones wanted to burn. There's no law saying he can't burn it but there's consequences that will happen, same thing with flag burning. However, I think he should be free to burn whatever he wants whether it's the flag or The Koran.
I'm in Newberry- are you a student?

Yeah Im a 3rd year Chem-E major at UF.
Logged
#Grumps
GM3PRP
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 36227
Iran, Islamic Republic of
View Profile
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 03:21:08 pm »
Ignore

Both are wrong, because it's nothing more than real-life trolling.  I guess it should still be allowed though; freedom of expression and so forth.

This ^^^^^^  Inks should infract them 10 points a book/flag Smiley
Logged

02-12-2011

What it was is my birthday is 5 days after my grandmother's.  She will be 85 on Easter Sunday (April 24) this year and I will be 29 on April 29.  I just found out that every single one of the out-of-town family members will leave before my birthday.  I started throwing a little "pity party" complaining that my birthday is always overshadowed by hers, which is the truth, but still why would I cry over something like that?"
🍁 Hatman
EarlAW
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22101
Canada


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 03:37:20 pm »
Ignore

Burning the Koran puts a lot more people's lives in jeopardy.
Logged

D-ON avatar so people stop confusing me with Holmes.

http://canadianelectionatlas.blogspot.com

Follow me on Twitter @EarlWashburn
Іbn Rushd
Averros Nix
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10901


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 03:41:18 pm »
Ignore

Both practices are silly and cliched, but that's the worst that I can say about them.
Logged

Sbane
sbane
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13765


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 03:48:16 pm »
Ignore

I'm not going to condemn or defend either. It's really just trolling and I personally don't care if a bible or a koran or a flag is burned. Of course burning a koran does put a lot of troops in harms way for no good reason and that's a good reason to condemn that idiot in your state.

Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22993
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 03:49:52 pm »
Ignore

I agree with the majority here, burning either is "wrong" but shouldn't be illegal.
Logged

I believe the simple truth is that they became somewhat alarmed when they realized that I really meant to write what I believed. There is a peculiar parallel between some of our great Northern "liberals" and some of our outstanding Southern liberals.

Some of the people in both classes share the deep-seated convictions that only their convictions can possibly be the right ones. They both inevitably say the same thing: "We know the Negro and what is best for him."
Хahar
Xahar
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 39008
Bangladesh


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2012, 03:58:12 pm »
Ignore

To equate the Koran with a flag is deeply insulting.
Logged

Update reading list

The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
Scott
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18585
United States
View Profile
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 04:04:44 pm »
Ignore

I personally resent people who burn things like Korans and flags and Bibles and whatnot and I don't believe that one action should be seen as any "less bad" or more justified than the other, but just plain being a dick shouldn't be illegal.
Logged


Gabriel Cceres

"He who feeds you, controls you." -Thomas Sankara
Sbane
sbane
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13765


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 04:19:13 pm »
Ignore

To equate the Koran with a flag is deeply insulting.

I guess the question to ask Clarence would be whether he thinks burning a bible is worse than the flag, or the same. And if it's worse, then why isn't burning the Koran worse as well.
Logged
I left my heart in the back of the cab
BRTD
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 74308
France


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2012, 10:01:02 pm »
Ignore

Neither offends me in the slightest.

To equate the Koran with a flag is deeply insulting.

I guess the question to ask Clarence would be whether he thinks burning a bible is worse than the flag, or the same. And if it's worse, then why isn't burning the Koran worse as well.

The two aren't really comparable actually, the status of the Koran in Islam and its nature has reasons why burning it would be far more offensive to Muslims than burning the Bible is to Christians, though even if I were Muslim I doubt I'd get too bent out of shape over Koran burning. I see being offended by desecration of any symbol (outside of the stupidity and nature of it just being real life trolling) to be essentially idolatry.
Logged

fezzyfestoon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8277
United States


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2012, 11:47:09 pm »
Ignore

Both are wrong, because it's nothing more than real-life trolling.  I guess it should still be allowed though; freedom of expression and so forth.

Precisely
Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22993
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 02:10:48 am »
Ignore

To equate the Koran with a flag is deeply insulting.
Maybe to you and your friends, but to the rest of us (and more importantly, the law), it's just a book.  Thankfully it's not against the law to insult someone.
Burning the Koran puts a lot more people's lives in jeopardy.
Indeed, but we shouldn't ban things because asshats might get violent.  It would set a bad precedent.
Logged

I believe the simple truth is that they became somewhat alarmed when they realized that I really meant to write what I believed. There is a peculiar parallel between some of our great Northern "liberals" and some of our outstanding Southern liberals.

Some of the people in both classes share the deep-seated convictions that only their convictions can possibly be the right ones. They both inevitably say the same thing: "We know the Negro and what is best for him."
○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 33374


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2012, 02:15:20 am »
Ignore

You should be free to burn your own flags or Korans or Bibles wherever and whenever wouldn't be a fire or smoke hazard.
Logged
IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18785
Japan


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2012, 08:19:09 am »
Ignore

Personally I find burning a Koran more offensive than burning a US flag for two reasons:

1. The Koran is a book. A book is a container of ideas and knowledge. Even if the contents of a particular book are wrong, factually or morally, I believe there is an intrinsic good to having a free marketplace of ideas where they can compete on their merits. As such book burning just feels kind of wrong.

2. The US flag is supposed to be a symbol of freedom. Freedom to the extent that you have the freedom to burn that symbol. Some flag burners happen to actually love the country, so the action also tends to have a much difference context than Koran burning.

Neither should be illegal provided you own the actual object, of course.
Logged

Insula Dei
belgiansocialist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4361
Belgium


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2012, 08:24:42 am »
Ignore

Obviously the stakes are much higher for Muslims when a Koran is burned than for Americans when their flag is burned.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines