Romney's foreign policy spokesman "resigns" for being gay

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

When Jenifer Rubin and Ari Fleischer of all people don't buy the official Romney campaign story then why should we? Unless of course you consider them closet lefties who want to undermine the Republican candidate.

Right... because they either must be correct, or they must be lefties who wish to ruin Romney as the GOP candidate.  Come on, dude, at least try to appear somewhat open-minded.

[Landslide Lyndon]

When Jenifer Rubin and Ari Fleischer of all people don't buy the official Romney campaign story then why should we? Unless of course you consider them closet lefties who want to undermine the Republican candidate.

Right... because they either must be correct, or they must be lefties who wish to ruin Romney as the GOP candidate.  Come on, dude, at least try to appear somewhat open-minded.

And you try to answer the simple questions they asked: why was the foreign policy spokesman essentially hidden from the public during last week when foreign and national security policy was dominating the debate?

[Brittain33]

I'm asking for any shred of evidence that he was fired for being gay.  And you can provide none.

Evidence: he was gay, he's been in public life for a while (as Bolton's spokesman), many conservatives had been calling for his ouster, and he stepped down.

Do you accept that when stepping down from a position in tough circumstances like this, people have a definite interest in not naming names because it means they'll never get hired again? Grenell may well return to a Romney administration in the future, if he worked for Bolton he has a future in the GOP. But only if he's a good soldier and takes his punishment from the base this time.

Your standard for evidence is impossible: you're asking for this guy to stoke a firestorm with people he'll have to face again in his career by calling them out. That doesn't happen because it's not part of public relations. You can take the absence of his calling them out at face value, but their demands are on the record, as if Grenell's career.

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The added attention was brought to bear by social conservatives who don't trust Romney and wanted him gone. If the added attention made him leave, then by bringing it to bear, they forced him out. People don't become spokesmen or go to work for lightning rods like Bolton because they are shy or reluctant to get criticism or get unwanted attention. Ann Romney, he isn't.

I am willing to believe he wasn't forced out by Romney. But he was assuredly forced out by the people Romney needs who don't trust him.

[Brittain33]

Because he was urged to resign or because he didn't want to suffer the brunt of unfair personal attacks?

Have you met gay Republicans?

They know exactly what to expect from their socon allies and they don't take it seriously--they see that gay-baiting as bait for the little people, it doesn't mean anything for their own personal working relationships. They pride themselves at seeing through "the game" and being in power because of their own skill. They most assuredly don't step down because of hurt feelings from the usual suspects.

[Brittain33]

Aol News/Huffpo seems to state that Romney actually asked him to stay on and not leave.

It also states that numerous earlier reports were either incorrect or misleading.

It is nice sometimes to wait for the facts...

No one on this thread said he was forced to leave by Romney himself, I don't believe. He was forced out, but I can accept it wasn't a Tom-Vilsack-calling-Shirley-Sherrod kind of situation.

It's possible Romney or one of his inner circle had a talk with the gay man and they agreed it would be for the best if he stepped away from the campaign, it was ok earlier but now things have gotten too hot and it would best for the cause if he stepped aside, he'll get his reward later, but that would be complete speculation.

[Torie]

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"Assuredly" is way too strong a word here, but the above is certainly reasonable speculation, and perhaps the most probable out of the available choices of what might have happened. I will concede that much.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

This whole thing astounds me. One, it doesn't matter and plays right into Obama's diversionary tactics. Two, no one can say anything with any degree of certainty about what actually happened. Period. Thus, the thread degenerates into the Obama Dems pushing an angle that they think is politically expedient, and the Republicans defending their allies.

Since we live in a society where you're innocent until proven guilty, I think it's pretty clear this entire thread is a sham.

[Brittain33]

Thus, the thread degenerates into the Obama Dems pushing an angle that they think is politically expedient

This is a big nothingburger politically. It's not going to affect Romney's campaign. I'm gay, so that's why I have an inordinate interest in this and in us having a common understanding of how the game is played. As a Democrat, I'd rather the spokesman had stuck around and Romney's allies continued to mistrust their nominee as a result. I don't hold the Romney campaign damnable if they cut him loose (and I can accept that they very well did offer to defend Grinell) because all of this is just political reality and general political evolution on gay rights will solve this flavor of injustice in the future, even in the GOP.

[Likely Voter]

While being gay isn't a lifestyle choice, working for Mitt Romney clearly is...and apparently a dangerous one too

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

When Jenifer Rubin and Ari Fleischer of all people don't buy the official Romney campaign story then why should we? Unless of course you consider them closet lefties who want to undermine the Republican candidate.

I didn't get that impression from what she wrote.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'm asking for any shred of evidence that he was fired for being gay.  And you can provide none.

Evidence: he was gay, he's been in public life for a while (as Bolton's spokesman), many conservatives had been calling for his ouster, and he stepped down.

Do you accept that when stepping down from a position in tough circumstances like this, people have a definite interest in not naming names because it means they'll never get hired again? Grenell may well return to a Romney administration in the future, if he worked for Bolton he has a future in the GOP. But only if he's a good soldier and takes his punishment from the base this time.

Your standard for evidence is impossible: you're asking for this guy to stoke a firestorm with people he'll have to face again in his career by calling them out. That doesn't happen because it's not part of public relations. You can take the absence of his calling them out at face value, but their demands are on the record, as if Grenell's career.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The added attention was brought to bear by social conservatives who don't trust Romney and wanted him gone. If the added attention made him leave, then by bringing it to bear, they forced him out. People don't become spokesmen or go to work for lightning rods like Bolton because they are shy or reluctant to get criticism or get unwanted attention. Ann Romney, he isn't.

I am willing to believe he wasn't forced out by Romney. But he was assuredly forced out by the people Romney needs who don't trust him.

I never disputed that he was essentially forced out by social conservatives... I've agreed with that.  But you said that he was "asked to leave" implying it was an inside-the-campaign thing, and that's why I was disputing you.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

When Jenifer Rubin and Ari Fleischer of all people don't buy the official Romney campaign story then why should we? Unless of course you consider them closet lefties who want to undermine the Republican candidate.

Right... because they either must be correct, or they must be lefties who wish to ruin Romney as the GOP candidate.  Come on, dude, at least try to appear somewhat open-minded.

And you try to answer the simple questions they asked: why was the foreign policy spokesman essentially hidden from the public during last week when foreign and national security policy was dominating the debate?

One of two reasons:

1. Because it was a smart campaign move.  When foreign policy is dominating the debate, Romney wants to talk about foreign policy, not turn the focus to homosexual issues.  It's a distraction from the issue at hand.  It doesn't mean it would've been permanent... that's just common sense PR.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Aol News/Huffpo seems to state that Romney actually asked him to stay on and not leave.

It also states that numerous earlier reports were either incorrect or misleading.

It is nice sometimes to wait for the facts...

No one on this thread said he was forced to leave by Romney himself, I don't believe. He was forced out, but I can accept it wasn't a Tom-Vilsack-calling-Shirley-Sherrod kind of situation.

It's possible Romney or one of his inner circle had a talk with the gay man and they agreed it would be for the best if he stepped away from the campaign, it was ok earlier but now things have gotten too hot and it would best for the cause if he stepped aside, he'll get his reward later, but that would be complete speculation.

You said he was "asked to leave" which implies that it was within the campaign.  People outside the campaign don't "ask" for a resignation, they "demand"  or "urge for" resignations.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I still don't understand why the burden of proof should be on Romney and the campaign here.  Shouldn't the burden of proof of any wrongdoing be on those accusing the campaign of wrongdoing?

[Brittain33]

You said he was "asked to leave" which implies that it was within the campaign.

That was in one post prior to it being posted here that the Romney campaign denied asking him to leave and said they wanted him to stay. When the Romney campaign issued denials that they asked him, I accepted that and didn't attribute any agency to the campaign initiating the forcing out.

Meanwhile you weren't disputing whether it was the campaign or someone else who forced him out, you were going down the path of this being his own choice etc., which minimized the extent of his gayness being a reason for his head to roll.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

He almost assuredly resigned after feeling pressure to do so. Campaigns always prioritize the whole over the individual, even if doing so is blatantly unfair. It's how politics works.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

You said he was "asked to leave" which implies that it was within the campaign.

That was in one post prior to it being posted here that the Romney campaign denied asking him to leave and said they wanted him to stay. When the Romney campaign issued denials that they asked him, I accepted that and didn't attribute any agency to the campaign initiating the forcing out.

Meanwhile you weren't disputing whether it was the campaign or someone else who forced him out, you were going down the path of this being his own choice etc., which minimized the extent of his gayness being a reason for his head to roll.

I hever said it was fully his choice.  It's not like I think he just decided one day, "I'm going to resign."  From the beginning, I've argued he probably left because he was uncomfortable with the pressure put on him by social conservatives.

But even in all of that, I never said that I was sure of anything.  You made some (stupid) assumptions and acted like you actually knew what happened, and you didn't.  Now that you've been proven wrong, you're trying to backtrack and make it sound like you had an open mind in all of this.

[Brittain33]

More details emerge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/us/politics/richard-grenell-resigns-from-mitt-romneys-foreign-policy-team.html

The Romney campaign was ok with Grenell being gay, it was no obstacle to his being hired. The tweets weren't a big deal. But when the SoCons raised it as an issue at the same time that Romney prepared to introduce his foreign policy team and hold a big press call, they benched Grenell. They declined to introduce him (even though his appointment was public knowledge) and asked him to be silent during what would have been his first call as a spokesman. They indicated that their preferred response to the storm was to hunker down and wait for it to blow over, and they would not defend him or allow him the opportunity to do his job. Grenell read this as a sign that he was radioactive.

Inks, you are absolutely correct, there is no evidence they "asked him to leave."

I'm going to put the following in bold, because I think there's a misunderstanding from some heterosexuals here as to why this matters: I don't think Romney's campaign did anything wrong or unusual. Something similar could happen on a Dem campaign, albeit much further down the football field toward equality than this one, and more likely with a trans employee or another minority. I give the Romney campaign credit for being willing to hire an openly gay man in the first place.

Every gay man, Democratic or Republican, in politics or the private sector, knows that there's always a chance he could be held accountable for making "some other person" uncomfortable, and it's not your employer's feeling or fault, but it would really be better if you tone it down, or maybe not show up that day, you understand. And if you don't understand, then you become the problem. The situation used to be far worse for everyone. Gay Republicans choose to play in a realm where the mores are more archaic and difficult than elsewhere, but that's their choice.

So when I dwell on this, it's to acknowledge that what happened to Grenell highlights an injustice that continues. It's a paltry injustice and we've come so far from where we were, but it's the kind of thing that other people take for granted will never be a problem for them. Being told "well, it was his choice, so we don't know the story, but I can hypothesize it's his own hurt feelings, you can't prove it wasn't" trivializes the problem. I don't need a signed affidavit from Mitt Romney asserting that he chose not to defend a qualified defense spokesman because he needed the support of social conservatives to consolidate his campaign as proof of what happened. The situation is too familiar and too banal.

[Torie]

The content of Brittain33's post is what Andrew Sullivan writes as well. It is quite depressing actually.  It is quite simple for the Romney campaign to tell the socons that we don't discriminate, and we don't demand fealty on every issue outside the job description of the employee (the guy, horror or horrors, supports gay marriage, as I suspect most of the GOP elite does behind closed doors, and probably a majority of the Pub upper middle class these days). And that should end it - period.

However, I would have fired the guy over his twitter antics myself. It displays poor judgment and a lack of maturity and discipline, and I for one, would not stand for it. He would be out the door, be he gay, straight, or a eunuch. So in the end the same result would obtain; it would just be a different story line.

[Brittain33]

The AFA takes a victory lap with the cameras and microphones rolling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGc6ldB8i44&feature=youtu.be

This is just unpleasant for everyone involved. It doesn't help Romney to have this be the news story.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The content of Brittain33's post is what Andrew Sullivan writes as well. It is quite depressing actually.  It is quite simple for the Romney campaign to tell the socons that we don't discriminate, and we don't demand fealty on every issue outside the job description of the employee (the guy, horror or horrors, supports gay marriage, as I suspect most of the GOP elite does behind closed doors, and probably a majority of the Pub upper middle class these days). And that should end it - period.

However, I would have fired the guy over his twitter antics myself. It displays poor judgment and a lack of maturity and discipline, and I for one, would not stand for it. He would be out the door, be he gay, straight, or a eunuch. So in the end the same result would obtain; it would just be a different story line.

What was the story where he was claimed to have lied or exaggerated often in previous jobs as spokesman?