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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2005, 08:30:28 am »
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I got Kant first, Hobbes last.
Hobbes still was much the more interesting and admirable man.
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« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2005, 08:47:59 am »
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I got Kant first, Hobbes last.
Hobbes still was much the more interesting and admirable man.


I wonder why so many people like that crazy whore.

BTW, do you consider yourself Kantian, or getting it was just an accident?
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NO, I don't want to go back to Fantasy Elections.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2005, 08:54:51 am »
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I got Kant first, Hobbes last.
Hobbes still was much the more interesting and admirable man.


I wonder why so many people like that crazy whore.

BTW, do you consider yourself Kantian, or getting it was just an accident?
Accident, I hope.
Lots of questions where I didn't fully agree with either option here.
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"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2005, 12:04:23 pm »
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1.    Nietzsche   (100%)  Click here for info
2.    Jean-Paul Sartre   (95%)  Click here for info
3.    David Hume   (84%)  Click here for info
4.    Thomas Hobbes   (71%)  Click here for info
5.    Stoics   (68%)  Click here for info
6.    Epicureans   (64%)  Click here for info
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14.    Jeremy Bentham   (37%)  Click here for info
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Strange.....I consider myself at least partially utilitarian and yet JSM was only a 45% match and Bentham a 37% match.

You think that "God is dead" then?

Put it in context:

 Have you heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly, "I seek God! I seek God!" As many of those who do not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter...

Whither is God," he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. All of us are murderers.... God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him...


(The Gay Science 1882)

So first of all Nietzsche himself didn't proclaim that "God is dead", a character - no less a madman - in one of his books proclaimed as such.

Secondly, it is not meant to be taken literally, Nietzsche's character does not mean that God is literally dead, his point is that what God represents in Western society is dead, that the Christian notion of God was losing its application as great numbers of intellectuals and writers in Europe at the time had abandoned traditional Christianity. The idea is that God is dead in the hearts of man, replaced by rationalism and science.

It was all part of his case for a "superman".

Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

Nietzsche is also well-known for the statement "God is dead." While in popular belief it is Nietzsche himself who blatantly made this declaration, it was actually placed into the mouth of a character, a "madman," in The Gay Science, and later was proclaimed by Nietzsche's Zarathustra. This largely misunderstood statement does not proclaim a physical death, but a natural end to the belief in God being the foundation of western philosophy. It is more of an observation than a declaration and it is noteworthy that Nietzsche never felt the need to advance any arguments for atheism. Nietzsche believed this "death" would eventually undermine the foundations of morality and lead to moral relativism and nihilism. To avoid this, he believed in re-evaluating the foundations of morality and placing them on a natural foundation.


------------------------

It seems to me that the proclamation is coming true, accepted moral standards have been undermined and people have been re-evaluating them, traditional marriage, abortion, stem cell research. Much of Western philosophy is n o longer concerned with a belief in God, just look at Russell.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2005, 12:06:59 pm by Senator John F. Kennedy, PPT »Logged
JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2005, 12:10:29 pm »
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I wouldn't go so far as to call him fascist, but he had a rather sick and twisted world-view. A disturbed individual.

IIRC He was very introverted and lived in solitude for much of his life.

He had a mental breakdown and became clinically insane.

Yes, ten years before his death, his philosophical works were written before than however so what is your point?

He had Syphalis. He was mad when he wrote his crap ("Why I am So Wise"...)

He didn't have Syphilis that is a myth, most of the claims he had syphilis came from anti-Nietzschean tracts, besides, syphilis isn't consistent with Nietzsche's symptoms as was shown by recent research in the Journal of Medical Biography.
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« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2005, 12:17:10 pm »
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3.    David Hume   (84%)  Click here for info
4.    Thomas Hobbes   (71%)  Click here for info
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19.    Ockham   (28%)  Click here for info

Strange.....I consider myself at least partially utilitarian and yet JSM was only a 45% match and Bentham a 37% match.

You think that "God is dead" then?

Put it in context:

 Have you heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly, "I seek God! I seek God!" As many of those who do not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter...

Whither is God," he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. All of us are murderers.... God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him...


(The Gay Science 1882)

So first of all Nietzsche himself didn't proclaim that "God is dead", a character - no less a madman - in one of his books proclaimed as such.

Secondly, it is not meant to be taken literally, Nietzsche's character does not mean that God is literally dead, his point is that what God represents in Western society is dead, that the Christian notion of God was losing its application as great numbers of intellectuals and writers in Europe at the time had abandoned traditional Christianity. The idea is that God is dead in the hearts of man, replaced by rationalism and science.

It was all part of his case for a "superman".

Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

Nietzsche is also well-known for the statement "God is dead." While in popular belief it is Nietzsche himself who blatantly made this declaration, it was actually placed into the mouth of a character, a "madman," in The Gay Science, and later was proclaimed by Nietzsche's Zarathustra. This largely misunderstood statement does not proclaim a physical death, but a natural end to the belief in God being the foundation of western philosophy. It is more of an observation than a declaration and it is noteworthy that Nietzsche never felt the need to advance any arguments for atheism. Nietzsche believed this "death" would eventually undermine the foundations of morality and lead to moral relativism and nihilism. To avoid this, he believed in re-evaluating the foundations of morality and placing them on a natural foundation.


------------------------

It seems to me that the proclamation is coming true, accepted moral standards have been undermined and people have been re-evaluating them, traditional marriage, abortion, stem cell research. Much of Western philosophy is n o longer concerned with a belief in God, just look at Russell.

Of course, that could be just the editors of Wikipedia apologizing to its readers. Because that contradicts nearly entirely what the Encyclopaedia Brittanica has to say about Nietzsche.

And about Russell: He had to give up his mathematical career when his principle work, the Principia Mathematica, was found to be just a tautology.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2005, 12:21:52 pm »
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Strange.....I consider myself at least partially utilitarian and yet JSM was only a 45% match and Bentham a 37% match.

You think that "God is dead" then?

Put it in context:

 Have you heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly, "I seek God! I seek God!" As many of those who do not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter...

Whither is God," he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. All of us are murderers.... God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him...


(The Gay Science 1882)

So first of all Nietzsche himself didn't proclaim that "God is dead", a character - no less a madman - in one of his books proclaimed as such.

Secondly, it is not meant to be taken literally, Nietzsche's character does not mean that God is literally dead, his point is that what God represents in Western society is dead, that the Christian notion of God was losing its application as great numbers of intellectuals and writers in Europe at the time had abandoned traditional Christianity. The idea is that God is dead in the hearts of man, replaced by rationalism and science.

It was all part of his case for a "superman".

Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

Nietzsche is also well-known for the statement "God is dead." While in popular belief it is Nietzsche himself who blatantly made this declaration, it was actually placed into the mouth of a character, a "madman," in The Gay Science, and later was proclaimed by Nietzsche's Zarathustra. This largely misunderstood statement does not proclaim a physical death, but a natural end to the belief in God being the foundation of western philosophy. It is more of an observation than a declaration and it is noteworthy that Nietzsche never felt the need to advance any arguments for atheism. Nietzsche believed this "death" would eventually undermine the foundations of morality and lead to moral relativism and nihilism. To avoid this, he believed in re-evaluating the foundations of morality and placing them on a natural foundation.


------------------------

It seems to me that the proclamation is coming true, accepted moral standards have been undermined and people have been re-evaluating them, traditional marriage, abortion, stem cell research. Much of Western philosophy is no longer concerned with a belief in God, just look at Russell.

Of course, that could be just the editors of Wikipedia apologizing to its readers. Because that contradicts nearly entirely what the Encyclopaedia Brittanica has to say about Nietzsche.

And about Russell: He had to give up his mathematical career when his principle work, the Principia Mathematica, was found to be just a tautology.

It could very well be, generally wikipedia tries to be impartial I believe but it could possibly be, my main point was really to point out that Nietzsche himself did not say that "God is dead", a character from The Gay Science did and that it is not necessarily a physical death.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2005, 12:38:32 pm »
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Nietzsche's "superman" theory is digusting. As are a lot of his other ideas come to think of it... killing all disabled people is just... urgh...
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« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2005, 12:51:33 pm »
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Nietzsche's "superman" theory is digusting. As are a lot of his other ideas come to think of it... killing all disabled people is just... urgh...

Overman is the commonly accepted translation by philosophers, the idea that man needs to overcome himself. Uber can mean over as well as super I believe.

The original word was Ubermensch.

Also, I never professed to agree with all his ideas now did I? I am merely defending him against many criticisms which are often taken out of context.
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« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2005, 01:00:16 pm »
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5.  Kant   (50%) 
6.  Plato   (49%)   
7.  Aristotle   (40%) 
8.  Jeremy Bentham   (38%) 
9.  Cynics   (35%)   
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« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2005, 01:09:33 pm »
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Whatever the heck that means.
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« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2005, 02:45:16 pm »
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« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2005, 03:08:41 pm »
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Nietzsche's "superman" theory is digusting. As are a lot of his other ideas come to think of it... killing all disabled people is just... urgh...

The abuse and the distortion of the ubermensch idea are disgusting.  Nietzche's postulation of Overman in Zarathustra is much more benign.  Man is the bridge between animal and overman.  The overman is simply a higher state of conciousness and understanding.  The Herbert Spencer like arguments were not explicitly stated by Nietzche.  You can blame his popularizers for that- mainly his siter who was a National Socialist and perverted many of his writings.  Nietzsche was no Nazi and would have looked unkindly on them.  One of the reasons he broke with Wagner was due to Wagners anti-semitism.  Nietzche also frequently criticized Prussian/German natiopnalism and militarism.  Nietzche was a very complex and often contradictory philosopher.  He is frequently taken out of context and misunderstood.  On the whole, I disagree with his general ideas but I think he gets an bad rap on many things.
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« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2005, 03:25:34 pm »
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Nietzsche's "superman" theory is digusting. As are a lot of his other ideas come to think of it... killing all disabled people is just... urgh...

The abuse and the distortion of the ubermensch idea are disgusting.  Nietzche's postulation of Overman in Zarathustra is much more benign.  Man is the bridge between animal and overman.  The overman is simply a higher state of conciousness and understanding.  The Herbert Spencer like arguments were not explicitly stated by Nietzche.  You can blame his popularizers for that- mainly his siter who was a National Socialist and perverted many of his writings.  Nietzsche was no Nazi and would have looked unkindly on them.  One of the reasons he broke with Wagner was due to Wagners anti-semitism.  Nietzche also frequently criticized Prussian/German natiopnalism and militarism.  Nietzche was a very complex and often contradictory philosopher.  He is frequently taken out of context and misunderstood.  On the whole, I disagree with his general ideas but I think he gets an bad rap on many things.

well said.  Still, the main thing I remember about him was that he was, above all, a very lonely and sickly man.  Also, he was a victim of venereal disease.  All in all, he was quite a weirdo.  I remember I used to quote him often in my early days on this forum.  Good for quotes, but still freakish.  My result:

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14.         Thomas Hobbes   (44%)  Click here for info
15.         St. Augustine   (40%)  Click here for info
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This was fun too.  Smiley
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« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2005, 03:26:47 pm »
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2.  John Stuart Mill   (93%) - I have always appreciated Mill's writings.
Their summary: The Utilitarian principle is correct when the quality of pleasures is accounted for;
Liberty is the most important pleasure;
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12.  Plato   (32%)
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14.  Stoics   (30%)
15.  Cynics   (29%)
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« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2005, 08:27:16 pm »
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Nietzsche's "superman" theory is digusting. As are a lot of his other ideas come to think of it... killing all disabled people is just... urgh...

The abuse and the distortion of the ubermensch idea are disgusting.  Nietzche's postulation of Overman in Zarathustra is much more benign.  Man is the bridge between animal and overman.  The overman is simply a higher state of conciousness and understanding.  The Herbert Spencer like arguments were not explicitly stated by Nietzche.  You can blame his popularizers for that- mainly his siter who was a National Socialist and perverted many of his writings.  Nietzsche was no Nazi and would have looked unkindly on them.  One of the reasons he broke with Wagner was due to Wagners anti-semitism.  Nietzche also frequently criticized Prussian/German natiopnalism and militarism.  Nietzche was a very complex and often contradictory philosopher.  He is frequently taken out of context and misunderstood.  On the whole, I disagree with his general ideas but I think he gets an bad rap on many things.

^^ What he said, glad to see others are out there who will defend Nietzsche, heh, also to Angus heehee.

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« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2005, 11:46:14 pm »
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7.  Aristotle   (58%)
8.  Cynics   (52%)
9.  Prescriptivism   (48%)
10.  Jean-Paul Sartre   (45%)
11.  Nel Noddings   (41%)
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13.  Ockham   (36%)
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15.  Nietzsche   (32%)
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« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2005, 01:49:31 pm »
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*Bump* I liked this thread, why'd it get buried?
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« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2005, 02:18:21 pm »
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7.  Cynics   (56%)
8.  Kant   (51%)
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11.  John Stuart Mill   (40%)
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« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2005, 03:15:28 pm »
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9.  Thomas Hobbes   (65%)  Click here for info
10.  John Stuart Mill   (62%)  Click here for info
11.  Spinoza   (62%)  Click here for info
12.  Aristotle   (61%)  Click here for info
13.  Epicureans   (54%)  Click here for info
14.  Ockham   (50%)  Click here for info
15.  Jeremy Bentham   (50%)  Click here for info
16.  Prescriptivism   (49%)  Click here for info
17.  Plato   (32%)  Click here for info
18.  St. Augustine   (32%)  Click here for info
19.  Nel Noddings   (9%)  Click here for info
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A Socially Liberal, Fiscally Conservative NE Republican with some Left-Libertarian/3rd Way Leanings. Simply, a Rockefeller Republican.

According to one poster, I represent a...

Dying bread of Americans.
frenger
Bono
YaBB God
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Posts: 11697
Portugal


Political Matrix
E: 8.65, S: -4.17

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« Reply #70 on: September 02, 2005, 06:57:40 am »
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So I took this again, and it's somewhat different:

1.    Stoics   (100%) 
2.    St. Augustine   (99%)
3.    Ayn Rand   (97%)
4.    Aquinas   (94%)
5.    Spinoza   (86%)
6.    Aristotle   (82%)
7.    Plato   (80%)
8.    Cynics   (76%)
9.    Kant   (61%)
10.    David Hume   (59%)
11.    Nietzsche   (57%)
12.    John Stuart Mill   (56%)
13.    Jean-Paul Sartre   (56%) 
14.    Jeremy Bentham   (49%)
15.    Ockham   (40%)
16.    Thomas Hobbes   (31%) 
17.    Epicureans   (28%)
18.    Nel Noddings   (22%)
19.    Prescriptivism   (22%)

The cynics shoulda been a bit higher, given that I'm a mix of a cynic and a stoic, but it accuretely reflects the changes in my ethical thought.
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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed – and hence clamorous to be led to safety – by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." – H.L. Mencken



NO, I don't want to go back to Fantasy Elections.
Democratic Hawk
LucysBeau
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Posts: 14669
United Kingdom


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« Reply #71 on: September 02, 2005, 08:07:52 am »
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My results (scores greater than 50%):

1.  Aquinas   (100%) 
2.  Jeremy Bentham   (82%) 
3.  John Stuart Mill   (82%) 
4.  Aristotle   (77%)
5.  Kant   (76%) 
6.  Jean-Paul Sartre   (69%) 
7.  Ayn Rand   (60%) 
8.  Plato   (57%) 
9.  Epicureans   (53%) 
10.  Prescriptivism   (52%) 

Dave
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Moderate Liberal Populist Smiley [Personal 45%/Economic 42%] / Defense 'Hawk'

Registered in Georgia for Fantasy Politics
ilikeverin
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Posts: 15378
Timor-Leste


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« Reply #72 on: September 02, 2005, 10:56:05 am »
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The cynics shoulda been a bit higher, given that I'm a mix of a cynic and a stoic, but it accuretely reflects the changes in my ethical thought.

I bet the change is all due to me, right? Cheesy
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Chief Judicial Officer of the Most Serene Republic of the Midwest, registered in the State of Joy, in Atlasia
Recognized National Treasure of Atlasia
Citizen James
James42
YaBB God
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Posts: 2554


Political Matrix
E: -3.87, S: -2.78

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« Reply #73 on: September 02, 2005, 02:36:42 pm »
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1.    Aquinas   (100%)  Click here for info
2.    John Stuart Mill   (98%)  Click here for info
3.    Ayn Rand   (90%)  Click here for info
4.    Epicureans   (90%)  Click here for info
5.    Jeremy Bentham   (88%)  Click here for info
6.    Jean-Paul Sartre   (85%)  Click here for info
7.    Aristotle   (77%)  Click here for info
8.    Spinoza   (75%)  Click here for info
9.    Kant   (68%)  Click here for info
10.    Prescriptivism   (68%)  Click here for info
11.    Nietzsche   (65%)  Click here for info
12.    St. Augustine   (65%)  Click here for info
13.    Cynics   (64%)  Click here for info
14.    Thomas Hobbes   (61%)  Click here for info
15.    Stoics   (58%)  Click here for info
16.    Nel Noddings   (52%)  Click here for info
17.    David Hume   (51%)  Click here for info
18.    Plato   (51%)  Click here for info
19.    Ockham   (42%)  Click here for info

Seen as college graffitti:

Quote
God is dead ~Nietzsche

Nietzsche is dead, ha ha ~God
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We do what we must
because we can.
For the good of all of us.
Except the ones who are dead.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake.
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Jake
dubya2004
YaBB God
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Posts: 18731
Cuba


Political Matrix
E: -0.90, S: -0.35

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« Reply #74 on: September 02, 2005, 03:08:43 pm »
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1.  Aquinas   (100%)
2.  St. Augustine   (85%)
3.  Jeremy Bentham   (79%) 
4.  Aristotle   (66%)
5.  Thomas Hobbes   (57%)
6.  John Stuart Mill   (55%) 
7.  Ockham   (55%)
8.  Plato   (53%) 
9.  Kant   (50%)
10.  Prescriptivism   (49%)
11.  Epicureans   (47%) 
12.  Ayn Rand   (41%)
13.  Spinoza   (40%) 
14.  Cynics   (36%)
15.  Jean-Paul Sartre   (34%)
16.  Nel Noddings   (33%)
17.  David Hume   (19%) 
18.  Nietzsche   (19%)
19.  Stoics   (15%)
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