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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: April 2012 Foreign Policy Review (Passed)  (Read 3386 times)
Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: May 03, 2012, 01:32:24 pm »
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http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=133144.msg3271763#msg3271763


Sponsor: Clarence, I think
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 11:10:49 am by Senator North Carolina Yankee »Logged

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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 01:36:06 pm »
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Clarence and Ben, you guys have 24 hours to start talking here.
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President John Hay
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 02:51:21 pm »
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I think this is a very well-done review that I see no problems with other then the following...
Ben and I were going to be working on a bill to treat Gaza Strip and West Bank as separate entities for the purpose of this review but if Ben doesn't object- an amendment here may be just fine
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GM Napoleon
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 04:40:27 pm »
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I hope my concerns will be addressed.
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 09:16:52 pm »
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I hope my concerns will be addressed.

Sorry, but could repost those concerns?  Much obliged Smiley
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"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 11:59:34 pm »
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I hope my concerns will be addressed.

Sorry, but could repost those concerns?  Much obliged Smiley

Yup, can you repost that. I seemed to have missed it. I have concerns as well, especially Israel's favored status even when we are admitting they aren't doing everything right. Also we need to recognize the west bank as a state.
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GM Napoleon
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2012, 12:03:52 am »
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You make good points too Senator. Here is what I suggested:
My biggest problem with the Foreign Policy Review is the sustained use of the word "attack" to describe the goal of the tariff. Such is all but admitting economic warfare. While I support restrictions for rogue nations, describing it is an attack does more harm than good.
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He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
Carlos Danger
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2012, 09:35:12 am »
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I cannot support any legislation that implies a belligerent or potentially-belligerent posture of our nation towards every other one in the world.  Jefferson's philosophy has always been and remains that which is most likely to bring both peace and prosperity to a nation that follows it:  "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations entangling alliances with none."
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2012, 09:54:01 am »
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Napoleon,

Attack only appears in the definition, and even then it is a minor thing, indicating where the culpability lies for the sanctions.  Can you think of better phrasing?

And Sbane, Clarence and I are working on legislation to handle the West Bank.  As for Israel, no nation is doing everything right.
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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2012, 06:29:28 pm »
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Napoleon,

Attack only appears in the definition, and even then it is a minor thing, indicating where the culpability lies for the sanctions.  Can you think of better phrasing?

And Sbane, Clarence and I are working on legislation to handle the West Bank.  As for Israel, no nation is doing everything right.

More pressure needs to be put on Israel and I intend on doing that by getting rid of favored nation status with them unless they work with us to ensure a Palestinian state in the West Bank. And we must also extract promises from them to do the same if the leadership changes in the Gaza strip.
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GM Napoleon
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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2012, 06:40:39 pm »
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Partial: Specific restrictions such as selective tariffs or partial embargoes are to be in place to pressure the government to change course, not to change the regime itself. Foreign aid can be granted if the regime shows signs of progress towards democracy.

Credit for this phrasing goes to Mr. Joyce, who will be a valuable contributor to foreign policy I am sure. Senator Sbane also has some good ideas, they should be considered here.
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I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
President John Hay
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 08:55:37 pm »
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I propose the following amendment- I hope Ben and Sbane can tell me if this sounds good to them

Amendment
-The Palestinian lands are to be considered separately as West Bank and Gaza STrip
-Each shall be given a status by the Secretary of External Affairs
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2012, 09:49:57 pm »
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Frankly, I'd make Gaza/West Bank separate legislation, simply to avoid complicating things.
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2012, 10:05:30 pm »
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OK- that sounds good to me, Ben
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LastVoter
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« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2012, 01:25:02 am »
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We need to enact a trade embargo against companies involved human right violations in China, this is an acceptable to me as a Labor party member.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 01:27:54 am by Senator Seatown »Logged
Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2012, 05:51:39 pm »
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Senators have 24 hours to object to Senator Clarence's amendment.
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2012, 02:12:39 pm »
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If there are no other comments on the FPR, is it possible to advance to a final vote?
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2012, 06:35:32 pm »
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The amendment has passed.



Senators this is now at final vote please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.
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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2012, 07:02:51 pm »
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Abstain.
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« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2012, 07:35:41 pm »
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AYE
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Sbane
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« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2012, 08:31:20 pm »
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Uh, can we stop this please. I wanted to add an amendment.

Amendment:
Quote
Israel: Normal; the DoEA urges Israel to end all settlements and alter the current non-Green Line route of the West Bank separation barrier, in which case Most Priority status shall be granted. We also urge Israel to work harder towards reaching a settlement to the Palestinian crisis.

Gaza: Full military and partial economic restrictions. We are concerned about acts of terrorism against Israel committed by the Hamas and the human rights situation.

West Bank: Normal. We are concerned about the current political situation, support a two state solution and would, in the near future, like a democratic and independent State of Palestine.
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Scott
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« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2012, 11:14:02 pm »
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Are votes allowed to be stopped? Tongue
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Carlos Danger
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« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2012, 11:37:27 pm »
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Nay
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Sbane
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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2012, 12:04:18 am »
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Well if it can't be stopped...Nay
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President John Hay
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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2012, 12:05:19 am »
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Aye

If we are discussing Sbane's amendment...I have a few points...
-I would like to hear more information regarding settlements....I'm not familiar with Green Line but that part sounds ok to me
-Israel I believe has worked very hard to have direct negotiations with the Palestinians...particularly Abbas. The second line I do not believe is warranted
-I agree with full military restrictions on Gaza but would also advocate full economic restrictions considering the government is Hamas
-I essentially agree but have problems with the West Bank...town squares and sports teams are named after suicide bombers for example- though moderate and a potential partner for peace- I believe they have some issues which need to be addressed

These are relatively minor points- to be honest Senator SbaneI would've thought we would be further away on this issue...I disagree with parts of your amendment but it is reasonable and recognizes the reality of the situation
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