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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: April 2012 Foreign Policy Review (Passed)  (Read 3593 times)
LastVoter
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« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2012, 12:50:25 am »
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Nay
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Scott
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« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2012, 12:53:15 am »
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Changing my vote to nay.
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SJoyce
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« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2012, 06:18:09 am »
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Aye

If we are discussing Sbane's amendment...I have a few points...
-I would like to hear more information regarding settlements....I'm not familiar with Green Line but that part sounds ok to me
-Israel I believe has worked very hard to have direct negotiations with the Palestinians...particularly Abbas. The second line I do not believe is warranted
-I agree with full military restrictions on Gaza but would also advocate full economic restrictions considering the government is Hamas
-I essentially agree but have problems with the West Bank...town squares and sports teams are named after suicide bombers for example- though moderate and a potential partner for peace- I believe they have some issues which need to be addressed

These are relatively minor points- to be honest Senator SbaneI would've thought we would be further away on this issue...I disagree with parts of your amendment but it is reasonable and recognizes the reality of the situation

The Green Line is the demarcation line between Israel and the West Bank; it means the same thing as '1967 borders'. Rerouting the West Bank separation barrier along the Green Line, instead of its current route (in which it cuts off Palestinians from Palestinian territory to encompass Israeli settlements), would be much fairer and cleaner:

Red is the planned route for the barrier, and the areas, especially around Immanuel and Ariel, where it sticks into Palestinian territory would be rerouted to follow the border between Israel and the West Bank.

As to the settlements, they're Jewish civilian communities (Palestinians/Muslims are not allowed inside) built on land in the West Bank/East Jerusalem/Golan Heights by Israelis (there used to be some in Gaza/the Sinai, but they were removed in 2005 and 1979, respectively). Israel continues to expand and make new settlements in the West Bank, which is illegal under the Oslo Accords and the Fourth Geneva Convention, and has been declared illegal by the ICJ and Ban Ki-Moon.

That line about negotiations appears in
Quote
Israel: Most Priority; however, the DoEA urges Israel to end all settlements and work harder towards reaching a settlement to the Palestinian crisis.
; it was just added so it wouldn't miss anything in the FPR already.

As to Gaza, I'd be concerned about whether full economic restrictions means we can't sell them things like what were previously banned by Israel from entering Gaza; things like cement, wood, iron, cattle, most medicines, musical instruments, and notebooks. Gaza really needs aid at this point in time; we don't want to cut off all trade.

The names of town squares and sports teams can be decided later; right now, we don't want to alienate the people who we need (and want, over Hamas) to work with for peace due to the name of their soccer team.
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« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2012, 08:08:04 am »
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Abstain
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My parents are pretty good about smelling a rat. 
Let me put this as clear as I can (saying this to myself, as well, so I can see it): I WILL get a job with CADD and I WILL keep the job.
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« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2012, 05:03:53 pm »
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Quote
3. In the event that a final vote has started the PPT shall have the power to stop said vote if a proposed amendment to a piece of legislation, resolution or amendment has been missed. If other "special situations" arise requiring an end to a vote, the PPT may halt the vote. Upon doing so, the PPT shall also declare the commencement of a 72 hour objection period, during which any Senator may object to halting the vote and with the concurrence of 2/3rd's of the Senate, overturn the PPT's action.



You are damn lucky Sbane, now I have to decide if your post on page 1 can be interpretted in such a way as to avoid a 72 hour objection period requirement.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2012, 05:06:11 pm »
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Sbane's post indicates a desire to seek changes, so I will take that.


Okay, vote halted.


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« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2012, 05:10:00 pm »
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Amendment:
Quote
China: Embargo against products made at the FoxConn's factory complex in the city of Shenzhen   until the human right violations are addressed, notably the suicides at said complex.
I could also introduce a bill for creation of an committee overseeing human right abuses in China by companies that export to Atlasia.
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« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2012, 05:26:52 pm »
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Quote from: Amendment 49:06 by sbane
Israel: Normal; the DoEA urges Israel to end all settlements and alter the current non-Green Line route of the West Bank separation barrier, in which case Most Priority status shall be granted. We also urge Israel to work harder towards reaching a settlement to the Palestinian crisis.

Gaza: Full military and partial economic restrictions. We are concerned about acts of terrorism against Israel committed by the Hamas and the human rights situation.

West Bank: Normal. We are concerned about the current political situation, support a two state solution and would, in the near future, like a democratic and independent State of Palestine.

Sponsor Feedback: NO VALID ENTRY!!!



Quote from: Amendment 49:07 by Seatown
China: Embargo against products made at the FoxConn's factory complex in the city of Shenzhen   until the human right violations are addressed, notably the suicides at said complex.

Sponsor Feedback: NO VALID ENTRY!!!
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« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2012, 05:30:08 pm »
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Can you explain what does "NO VALID ENTRY!!!" means, and what would be an acceptable amendment in foreign policy review?
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SJoyce
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« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2012, 05:39:27 pm »
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Amendment:
Quote
China: Embargo against products made at the FoxConn's factory complex in the city of Shenzhen   until the human right violations are addressed, notably the suicides at said complex.
I could also introduce a bill for creation of an committee overseeing human right abuses in China by companies that export to Atlasia.

I'm not sure that I'm able to target a specific company unless it's run by a government, let alone target a certain factory complex. This'd probably be a separate bill, creating a committee or whatever you want to lay out.

As for Sbane's amendment, I think we have to accept Clarence's amendment first before we can consider Sbane's, as until Clarence's is accepted Palestine is not considered separately and thus Sbane's cannot be applied.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 05:44:42 pm by Secretary of External Affairs SJoyceFla »Logged

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« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2012, 05:50:29 pm »
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Amendment:
Quote
China: Embargo against products made at the FoxConn's factory complex in the city of Shenzhen   until the human right violations are addressed, notably the suicides at said complex.
I could also introduce a bill for creation of an committee overseeing human right abuses in China by companies that export to Atlasia.

I'm not sure that I'm able to target a specific company unless it's run by a government, let alone target a certain factory complex. This'd probably be a separate bill, creating a committee or whatever you want to lay out.

As for Sbane's amendment, I think we have to accept Clarence's amendment first before we can consider Sbane's, as until Clarence's is accepted Palestine is not considered separately and thus Sbane's cannot be applied.

The only amendment that I have noted on this bill by Clarence has already been adopted prior to the abortive final vote. Sbane's amendment is currently under consideration. Both his and Seatown's need the feedback of the sponsor to move forward.
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SJoyce
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« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2012, 05:53:44 pm »
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Amendment:
Quote
China: Embargo against products made at the FoxConn's factory complex in the city of Shenzhen   until the human right violations are addressed, notably the suicides at said complex.
I could also introduce a bill for creation of an committee overseeing human right abuses in China by companies that export to Atlasia.

I'm not sure that I'm able to target a specific company unless it's run by a government, let alone target a certain factory complex. This'd probably be a separate bill, creating a committee or whatever you want to lay out.

As for Sbane's amendment, I think we have to accept Clarence's amendment first before we can consider Sbane's, as until Clarence's is accepted Palestine is not considered separately and thus Sbane's cannot be applied.

The only amendment that I have noted on this bill by Clarence has already been adopted prior to the abortive final vote. Sbane's amendment is currently under consideration. Both his and Seatown's need the feedback of the sponsor to move forward.

Ah; it was still on the amendment tracker in the noticeboard, so I assumed it hadn't.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2012, 07:22:38 pm »
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Amendment:
Quote
China: Embargo against products made at the FoxConn's factory complex in the city of Shenzhen   until the human right violations are addressed, notably the suicides at said complex.
I could also introduce a bill for creation of an committee overseeing human right abuses in China by companies that export to Atlasia.

I'm not sure that I'm able to target a specific company unless it's run by a government, let alone target a certain factory complex. This'd probably be a separate bill, creating a committee or whatever you want to lay out.

As for Sbane's amendment, I think we have to accept Clarence's amendment first before we can consider Sbane's, as until Clarence's is accepted Palestine is not considered separately and thus Sbane's cannot be applied.

The only amendment that I have noted on this bill by Clarence has already been adopted prior to the abortive final vote. Sbane's amendment is currently under consideration. Both his and Seatown's need the feedback of the sponsor to move forward.

Ah; it was still on the amendment tracker in the noticeboard, so I assumed it hadn't.

That doesn't track the status just all amendments offered in the Senate.
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« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2012, 07:25:51 pm »
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Can you explain what does "NO VALID ENTRY!!!" means, and what would be an acceptable amendment in foreign policy review?

It has nothing to do with the texts of the amendments. It means the sponsor has yet to respond to the amendments regarding whether he sees them as "Friendly" or "Unfriendly". Friendly means they can be passed by simply allowing 24 hours to object to passage. Unfriendly provokes a vote.
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Sbane
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« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2012, 11:56:27 pm »
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Sbane's post indicates a desire to seek changes, so I will take that.


Okay, vote halted.



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Scott
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« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2012, 12:04:23 am »
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Amendment:
Quote
China: Embargo against products made at the FoxConn's factory complex in the city of Shenzhen   until the human right violations are addressed, notably the suicides at said complex.
I could also introduce a bill for creation of an committee overseeing human right abuses in China by companies that export to Atlasia.

I'm not sure that I'm able to target a specific company unless it's run by a government, let alone target a certain factory complex. This'd probably be a separate bill, creating a committee or whatever you want to lay out.

Perhaps the wording of Seatown's amendment could be changed to something that would pressure the Chinese government to address the human rights and pass labor standards, or take action against the factory.
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SJoyce
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« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2012, 06:36:42 am »
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Amendment:
Quote
China: Embargo against products made at the FoxConn's factory complex in the city of Shenzhen   until the human right violations are addressed, notably the suicides at said complex.
I could also introduce a bill for creation of an committee overseeing human right abuses in China by companies that export to Atlasia.

I'm not sure that I'm able to target a specific company unless it's run by a government, let alone target a certain factory complex. This'd probably be a separate bill, creating a committee or whatever you want to lay out.

Perhaps the wording of Seatown's amendment could be changed to something that would pressure the Chinese government to address the human rights and pass labor standards, or take action against the factory.

We could add a note into the FPR, or just make it a separate bill.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2012, 07:15:37 pm »
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Oh sponsor?
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President John Hay
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« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2012, 07:16:25 pm »
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To the Chinese factory amendment? I say friendly
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« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2012, 07:17:43 pm »
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What about Sbane's? It was entered first and therefore must be considered first?
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« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2012, 07:18:21 pm »
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The Israel one- I do not declare friendly
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SJoyce
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« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2012, 07:26:10 pm »
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To the Chinese factory amendment? I say friendly

As the Secretary of External Affairs, it is my interpretation that the Foreign Policy Review is intended to lay out the policy of the administration towards nations. Although I find labor standards to be a serious concern, unless the company is run by the government (which Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., Ltd. (Foxconn) is not), it has no place in the Foreign Policy Review. I'm not trying to say I oppose this in what it aims to do, but this is not the proper format to do so. I would encourage Senator Seatown to propose legislation that would do what he aims to do, but our policy towards imports from a factory in Shenzhen isn't really part of our policy towards the current administration in the People's Republic of China.
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« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2012, 07:37:09 pm »
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Quote from: Amendment 49:06 by sbane
Israel: Normal; the DoEA urges Israel to end all settlements and alter the current non-Green Line route of the West Bank separation barrier, in which case Most Priority status shall be granted. We also urge Israel to work harder towards reaching a settlement to the Palestinian crisis.

Gaza: Full military and partial economic restrictions. We are concerned about acts of terrorism against Israel committed by the Hamas and the human rights situation.

West Bank: Normal. We are concerned about the current political situation, support a two state solution and would, in the near future, like a democratic and independent State of Palestine.

Sponsor Feedback: Hostile
Status: Pending Vote Commencement



Quote from: Amendment 49:07 by Seatown
China: Embargo against products made at the FoxConn's factory complex in the city of Shenzhen  until the human right violations are addressed, notably the suicides at said complex.

Sponsor Feedback: Friendly
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object
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« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2012, 07:39:10 pm »
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I am going to enter an objection to Seatown's amendment based on the method by which it seeks to acheive the desired result.
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SJoyce
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« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2012, 08:02:15 pm »
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Reading over the FPR again, I'm concerned that we only have six nations on "Most Priority" status. Can we up that? Nations like Brazil, India, Indonesia, Argentina, Mexico, Canada, South Africa, Turkey, and Italy (a good chunk of whom are developing, a few of whom could emerge as superpowers in future, all of whom we should be striving to attain good relations with) aren't at that status.
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