Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 25, 2014, 05:16:21 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: True Federalist, Former Moderate, Badger)
| | |-+  what do you make of this George Soros interview?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: what do you make of this George Soros interview?  (Read 775 times)
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18305
United States


View Profile
« on: May 08, 2012, 11:34:12 am »
Ignore

from the 20 December 1998 broadcast of 60 Minutes:

Quote
KROFT: (Voiceover) To understand the complexities and contradictions in his personality, you have to go back to the very beginning: to Budapest, where George Soros was born 68 years ago to parents who were wealthy, well-educated and Jewish.

When the Nazis occupied Budapest in 1944, George Soros' father was a successful lawyer. He lived on an island in the Danube and liked to commute to work in a rowboat. But knowing there were problems ahead for the Jews, he decided to split his family up. He bought them forged papers and he bribed a government official to take 14-year-old George Soros in and swear that he was his Christian godson. But survival carried a heavy price tag. While hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews were being shipped off to the death camps, George Soros accompanied his phony godfather on his appointed rounds, confiscating property from the Jews.

(Vintage footage of Jews walking in line; man dragging little boy in line)

KROFT: (Voiceover) These are pictures from 1944 of what happened to George Soros' friends and neighbors.

(Vintage footage of women and men with bags over their shoulders walking; crowd by a train)

KROFT: (Voiceover) You're a Hungarian Jew...

Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.

KROFT: (Voiceover) ...who escaped the Holocaust...

(Vintage footage of women walking by train)

Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Mm-hmm.

(Vintage footage of people getting on train)

KROFT: (Voiceover) ... by -- by posing as a Christian.

Mr. SOROS: (Voiceover) Right.

(Vintage footage of women helping each other get on train; train door closing with people in boxcar)

KROFT: (Voiceover) And you watched lots of people get shipped off to the death camps.

Mr. SOROS: Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that that's when my character was made.

KROFT: In what way?

Mr. SOROS: That one should think ahead. One should understand and -- and anticipate events and when -- when one is threatened. It was a tremendous threat of evil. I mean, it was a -- a very personal experience of evil.

KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. Yes.

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.


KROFT: I mean, that's -- that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

Mr. SOROS: Not -- not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't -- you don't see the connection. But it was -- it created no -- no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.

KROFT: For example that, 'I'm Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.' None of that?

Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c -- I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was -- well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in markets -- that if I weren't there -- of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would -- would -- would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the -- whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the -- I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.  
Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47609


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2012, 11:59:00 am »
Ignore

Well, you know, jmfcst, privileged people almost never have any guilt for the crimes they commit - look at the right-wing upper classes throughout history the world over.  What Soros the boy did was nothing - only as a capitalist man did he truly transgress.
Logged

The essence of democracy at its purest is a lynch mob

Insula Dei
belgiansocialist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4233
Belgium


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2012, 12:04:31 pm »
Ignore

I'm not quite comfortable with the implication that surviving the Holocaust is something one should feel quilty about.
Logged

Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18305
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2012, 12:08:51 pm »
Ignore

I'm not quite comfortable with the implication that surviving the Holocaust is something one should feel quilty about.

even if you aided the Nazis?
Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
Insula Dei
belgiansocialist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4233
Belgium


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2012, 12:17:51 pm »
Ignore

I'm not quite comfortable with the implication that surviving the Holocaust is something one should feel quilty about.

even if you aided the Nazis?

a) Soros was 14 at the time.
b) He didn't actively hurt anyone as far as I can gather from that interview. Just participated in the confiscation of goods that were going to be confiscated anyway.
c) How many came out of the Death Camps as morally pure as they had entered them? As Primo Levi explores at length in his works, part of the KZ's perversion was that they forced you to be a wolf to your fellow man if you were interested in in survival. 'Survivor Guilt' is a well-documented phenomenon
d) As a general rule it's best to abstain from judging the survival strategies of people during the Shoah if you have never been persecuted yourself.*

*: There are obvious exceptions to that rule, but Soros isn't one of them.

Disclaimer: I actually personally dislike George Soros at least somewhat. 
Logged

Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18305
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 12:39:24 pm »
Ignore

c) How many came out of the Death Camps as morally pure as they had entered them? As Primo Levi explores at length in his works, part of the KZ's perversion was that they forced you to be a wolf to your fellow man if you were interested in in survival. 'Survivor Guilt' is a well-documented phenomenon

quilt is not a problem for Soros:

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that's -- that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

Mr. SOROS: Not -- not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't -- you don't see the connection. But it was -- it created no -- no problem at all.

KROFT: No feeling of guilt?

Mr. SOROS: No.
Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
Insula Dei
belgiansocialist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4233
Belgium


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2012, 12:52:26 pm »
Ignore

Again, you seem to imply that he should feel guilty. You seem to imply that Holocaust Survivor X should feel guilty about the bread he took from his dying fellow inmate, that one should feel guilty for whatever little acts of betrayal were necessary for survival. What exactly did Soros do that he should feel guilty about? He carried around a bit of furniture.

And using the Holocaust to beat on political opponents within the confines of the little game of parliamentary politics is beyond the pale. Just so you know.
Logged

Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18305
United States


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2012, 01:06:27 pm »
Ignore

Again, you seem to imply that he should feel guilty. You seem to imply that Holocaust Survivor X should feel guilty about the bread he took from his dying fellow inmate, that one should feel guilty for whatever little acts of betrayal were necessary for survival. What exactly did Soros do that he should feel guilty about? He carried around a bit of furniture.

And using the Holocaust to beat on political opponents within the confines of the little game of parliamentary politics is beyond the pale. Just so you know.

Soros' ex-wife claimed Soros' parents were anti-Jewish and that Soros' mother did not like her because she was open about being Jewish.  Soros agreed with his ex-wife's account in his biography and even referred to his own mother as a “Jewish Anti-Semite”.

So, not only did he feel "no guilt" in helping the Nazis loot Jewish property, but he and his parents felt guilt about being Jewish.  They didn't like their fellow Jews, nor did they like being Jewish.
Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12655


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2012, 01:09:13 pm »
Ignore

Soros is a pretty disgusting person, but this is a pretty minor part of how and why, considering it was the [Inks]ing Holocaust and all.
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18305
United States


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2012, 01:40:52 pm »
Ignore

Soros is a pretty disgusting person, but this is a pretty minor part of how and why, considering it was the [Inks]ing Holocaust and all.

yeah, but don't you think it strange that his family didn't like being Jewish, nor did they like Jews who were openly Jewish...and then he feels no guilt in help the Nazis loot Jewish property.
Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
Redalgo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2549
United States


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 02:34:07 pm »
Ignore

I do not consider anything in the interview controversial. It makes sense some folks might if they were to believe we each have a duty to our perceived national or ethnic group which transcends self-interest, but he was a young teen thrust into an environment quite different than our own. I reckon making himself a martyr at the time based on principle or beating himself up about it later on would not have brought about anything positive for anybody involved. Could he have acted a bit differently at the time without putting himself in grave danger, or at the least in hindsight felt differently about the ordeal? Sure. Still, I'm not going to pass judgment on a bloke on account of how his parents felt about the Jewish people, what he did as a kid when he wasn't truly hurting anybody, or look down on him because he doesn't regret not being more FF'ish as a minor while trying to keep a low profile to avoid persecution by a very nasty, violently-repressive regime.

Without having lived under such conditions myself I am really in no position to speculate with confidence whether I, despite being one who regrets a lot of things, would have done or felt anything differently. Aside from that, however, I know little about Soros and do not have firm opinions about him so please realize this is not any sort of quick rush to an ally's defense. :]
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 02:48:03 pm by Redalgo »Logged

"I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to see realized." ~ Nelson Mandela
asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12655


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 02:35:28 pm »
Ignore

Soros is a pretty disgusting person, but this is a pretty minor part of how and why, considering it was the [Inks]ing Holocaust and all.

yeah, but don't you think it strange that his family didn't like being Jewish, nor did they like Jews who were openly Jewish...and then he feels no guilt in help the Nazis loot Jewish property.

It's certainly not a good thing, but it's not particularly 'strange' considering the history of European Jewry. I'm kind of numb to new revelations of ways in which George Soros is a bad human being, honestly.
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11700
Russian Federation


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 02:50:16 pm »
Ignore

I'm not really surprised by anything an adolescent boy feels or doesn't feel under these conditions, but I am surprised the Nazis didn't occupy Budapest until 1944.
Logged

Insula Dei
belgiansocialist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4233
Belgium


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2012, 02:56:03 pm »
Ignore

I'm not really surprised by anything an adolescent boy feels or doesn't feel under these conditions, but I am surprised the Nazis didn't occupy Budapest until 1944.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikl%C3%B3s_Horthy

It took the nazis 4 months to do to the Hungarian jewry what had been done to the Polish Jews in 3 years.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 10:48:06 am by Tussen Droom en Daad »Logged

ag
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6372


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 05:53:35 pm »
Ignore

Asking a person to feel guilty for surviving is fairly disgusting, in my book - and definitely amoral.
Logged
LastVoter
seatown
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4448
Thailand


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2012, 08:36:25 pm »
Ignore

Being a billionaire = being a bad person, and it's a question of how many people's lives you destroyed on your path to becoming one. Even if you were born into money, your social circle will most likely pressure you into keeping the attitude.
Logged
ag
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6372


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2012, 09:10:52 pm »
Ignore

Being a billionaire = being a bad person, and it's a question of how many people's lives you destroyed on your path to becoming one. Even if you were born into money, your social circle will most likely pressure you into keeping the attitude.

For the moment I though, it was opebo speaking Smiley)
Logged
LastVoter
seatown
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4448
Thailand


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2012, 04:34:19 am »
Ignore

Being a billionaire = being a bad person, and it's a question of how many people's lives you destroyed on your path to becoming one. Even if you were born into money, your social circle will most likely pressure you into keeping the attitude.

For the moment I though, it was opebo speaking Smiley)
I use more colloquial language. The content of the post is the same, just need to throw in a guillotine and you got yourself an opebo post.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 04:40:35 am by Senator Seatown »Logged
Cory
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1479


P
View Profile
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2012, 11:30:23 am »
Ignore

but I am surprised the Nazis didn't occupy Budapest until 1944.

Well the thing is that the Hungarians were allies of Germany under the regime of Admiral Horthy. Until in 1944 Horthy refused to "export" Hungarian Jews to the Germans, so the SS staged a coup and put the ArrowCross Party in charge of Hungary.

Logged
Governor Varavour
Simfan34
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10826


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: 5.91

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2012, 06:06:54 pm »
Ignore

but I am surprised the Nazis didn't occupy Budapest until 1944.

Well the thing is that the Hungarians were allies of Germany under the regime of Admiral Horthy. Until in 1944 Horthy refused to "export" Hungarian Jews to the Germans, so the SS staged a coup and put the ArrowCross Party in charge of Hungary.

Yes. Horthy was not the problem and the coup was staged after the Nazis got wind he might be negotiating a surrender.
Logged

Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines