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Author Topic: Bibi forms broadest coalition ever to govern Israel, cancels elections  (Read 1647 times)
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jmfcst
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« on: May 08, 2012, 02:55:15 pm »
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/08/world/meast/israel-politics/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

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wow.  94 out of 120.  what's that, 80% of Knesset?
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2012, 03:07:38 pm »
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94 out of 120.  what's that, 80% of Knesset?

78.33...%
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2012, 04:10:51 pm »
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This isn't actually the broadest as the Shamir-Peres coalition had 97 MK's.

Also Mofaz can teach Romney how to flip-flop. The media is having a field day with videos of Mofaz for months saying terrible things about Bibi and what a failure. Also promising very clearly that there is no chance that he will join the coalition and that he is the only one who can stand up to and replace Bibi. Worst of all is that the day before the deal was announced he blamed Shelly that she is pretending to be an opposition while secretly making a deal with Bibi while secretly doing exactly that very thing himself.
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2012, 04:11:53 pm »
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This isn't actually the broadest as the Shamir-Peres coalition had 97 MK's.

Also Mofaz has a thing or two to teach Romney about flip-flopping. The media is having a field day with videos of Mofaz for months saying terrible things about Bibi and what a failure. Also promising very clearly that there is no chance that he will join the coalition and that he is the only one who can stand up to and replace Bibi. Worst of all is that the day before the deal was announced he blamed Shelly that she is pretending to be an opposition while secretly making a deal with Bibi while secretly doing exactly that very thing himself.
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2012, 04:27:12 pm »
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Worst of all is that the day before the deal was announced he blamed Shelly that she is pretending to be an opposition while secretly making a deal with Bibi while secretly doing exactly that very thing himself.

A little part of me is always very happy when politicians play the self-parody game to that absurd (glorious) extent.
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 04:42:40 pm »
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Well, we'd have to wait and see if a few of the Kadima people defect. A certain Ms Tzipi isn't sounding very happy, does she?
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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2012, 04:51:59 pm »
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Well, we'd have to wait and see if a few of the Kadima people defect. A certain Ms Tzipi isn't sounding very happy, does she?

Livni resigned and is not relevant at the moment. As for the other members of Kadima, they approved this deal unanimously, And with good (personal) reason: most of them were about to lose their jobs which were now saved because of this deal.
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2012, 05:07:56 pm »
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Well, we'd have to wait and see if a few of the Kadima people defect. A certain Ms Tzipi isn't sounding very happy, does she?

Livni resigned and is not relevant at the moment. As for the other members of Kadima, they approved this deal unanimously, And with good (personal) reason: most of them were about to lose their jobs which were now saved because of this deal.

Well, good for them. They should start merger negotiations as soon as possible - otherwise they are running the risk of missing the next Knesset even more decisively. And, given their recent decisions, it's clear they are valuing being in that House a lot Smiley)
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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2012, 07:26:53 pm »
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A bit off/t, but I heard that one June 4, 1967, a surprise coalition government was suddenly announced, and Israel attacked Egypt the next day. Is this a signal that Israel will attack Iran this year?
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2012, 07:54:38 pm »
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A bit off/t, but I heard that one June 4, 1967, a surprise coalition government was suddenly announced, and Israel attacked Egypt the next day. Is this a signal that Israel will attack Iran this year?
That's a scary thought.
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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 08:59:22 pm »
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A bit off/t, but I heard that one June 4, 1967, a surprise coalition government was suddenly announced, and Israel attacked Egypt the next day. Is this a signal that Israel will attack Iran this year?
That's a scary thought.
Not nearly as scary as the other way around...
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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 09:14:54 pm »
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A bit off/t, but I heard that one June 4, 1967, a surprise coalition government was suddenly announced, and Israel attacked Egypt the next day. Is this a signal that Israel will attack Iran this year?
That's a scary thought.
Not nearly as scary as the other way around...

Actually, if you care about the Jews, probably scarier. If Iran were mad enough to actually attack, it would be dealt w/ speedily and uncontroversially. If Israel attacks, it could really misfire nastily.
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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2012, 09:38:43 am »
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Well, we'd have to wait and see if a few of the Kadima people defect. A certain Ms Tzipi isn't sounding very happy, does she?

Livni resigned and is not relevant at the moment. As for the other members of Kadima, they approved this deal unanimously, And with good (personal) reason: most of them were about to lose their jobs which were now saved because of this deal.

Well, good for them. They should start merger negotiations as soon as possible - otherwise they are running the risk of missing the next Knesset even more decisively. And, given their recent decisions, it's clear they are valuing being in that House a lot Smiley)

I'm not sure the decision to enter the coalition will necessarily harm them in the next election. It's clear that a significant portion of centrists wanted Kadima to enter the coalition and are happy with the decision. The first poll after the decision doesn't show any movement away from Kadima. IMO the worst looking thing for Kadima is the flip-flopping, but I doubt many people will remember and/or care much about that in 18 months.
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2012, 12:05:46 pm »
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It's not that the people should/would be unhappy about them joining the coalition. It's that it's not clear, what's the difference between them and Likud. If you don't like the government: well, vote for the opposition. If you like the government: vote for the government - that is, Likud. What's their niche?

Netaniyahu is, by far, a better politician than Mofaz. This is still going to be the Netaniyahu government, on which Kadima will struggle to make any imprint. What are the positions they are getting, besides the minister w/ out portfolio?
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« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2012, 12:46:37 pm »
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It's not that the people should/would be unhappy about them joining the coalition. It's that it's not clear, what's the difference between them and Likud. If you don't like the government: well, vote for the opposition. If you like the government: vote for the government - that is, Likud. What's their niche?

People who, for various reasons would not agree to vote for Likud (because they dislike Bibi, because they think Likud is too right wing for them, because they associate Likud with a type of people they wouldn't want to be associated with), but who either think a unity is government the responsible thing to do or don't like the idea of early elections.


Netaniyahu is, by far, a better politician than Mofaz. This is still going to be the Netaniyahu government, on which Kadima will struggle to make any imprint. What are the positions they are getting, besides the minister w/ out portfolio?

Agreed about Bibi being a better politician. They will be getting some committee chairmanships and there is media speculation that they will be getting some ministries soon. Obviously they would be getting much more if they entered the coalition after the election from a position of power.
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« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2012, 01:35:32 pm »
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So, is Shinui 2.0 or whatever Lapid's party is called going to eat most of Kadima?  I thought they have roughly the same voter demos.
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« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2012, 02:19:34 pm »
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So, is Shinui 2.0 or whatever Lapid's party is called going to eat most of Kadima?  I thought they have roughly the same voter demos.

Basically yes together with Labour, they might still keep their votes but the centrist vote is especially fickle so Centrist parties are prone to quickly rising and crashing down again and unless Mofaz can make his party appealing somehow to these voters they will disappear. And from what I have seen of Mofaz so far I wouldn't trust him to be able to do that.
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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2012, 02:30:48 pm »
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Well, we'd have to wait and see if a few of the Kadima people defect. A certain Ms Tzipi isn't sounding very happy, does she?

Livni resigned and is not relevant at the moment. As for the other members of Kadima, they approved this deal unanimously, And with good (personal) reason: most of them were about to lose their jobs which were now saved because of this deal.

The 12 out of their 28 members who bothered to show up approved it unanimously, that is:

Quote
Moreover, only 12 out of 28 Kadima MKs showed up to the meeting mostly from the Mofaz camp. Kadima MK Robert Tibayev announced he will not take part in the vote. "We are entering the coalition with no discussion, with four clauses in the agreement," he said." I don't think there has ever been a coalition deal with four clauses and nothing of essence."

Certainly looks like there might be possibility for a split, especially if the other 16 are worried that going into the next elections under the Kadima label would be too risky.

A bit off/t, but I heard that one June 4, 1967, a surprise coalition government was suddenly announced, and Israel attacked Egypt the next day. Is this a signal that Israel will attack Iran this year?

Circumstances were a bit different then; the unity government was forged specifically because Isreal's neighbors had made it obvious a war war imminent. Here, on the other hand, there are some pretty specific domestic issues they're wanting to address.

If anything, I think this makes an Israeli strike against Iran less likely. Kadima + Likud + Ehud Barak's splinter from Labor is exactly half of the Knesset now so presumably those super-right wing minor parties are more marginalized.
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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2012, 03:23:21 pm »
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People who, for various reasons would not agree to vote for Likud (because they dislike Bibi, because they think Likud is too right wing for them, because they associate Likud with a type of people they wouldn't want to be associated with), but who either think a unity is government the responsible thing to do or don't like the idea of early elections.

Disliking Netaniyahu and liking Mofaz.... Hm., that's a particularly perverted taste. Are there many of those? (I AM being disingenious here, but only somewhat). After a year in this coalition, Kadima will be associated exactly with the same sort of people, anyway.
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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2012, 04:50:09 pm »
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People who, for various reasons would not agree to vote for Likud (because they dislike Bibi, because they think Likud is too right wing for them, because they associate Likud with a type of people they wouldn't want to be associated with), but who either think a unity is government the responsible thing to do or don't like the idea of early elections.

Disliking Netaniyahu and liking Mofaz.... Hm., that's a particularly perverted taste. Are there many of those? (I AM being disingenious here, but only somewhat). After a year in this coalition, Kadima will be associated exactly with the same sort of people, anyway.

Not necessarily liking Mofaz, plenty of Israelis don't like any politician, But if they apathetic or dislike Mofaz less than Bibi that could be enough.

And being associated with a certain segment in the population is a party specific thing and not to the coalition as a whole. All the parties to the right of Meretz have served with almost every other parties and it hasn't stopped stopped parties from retaining distinct voting groups anyway.
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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2012, 04:59:47 pm »
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Nothing I say in this thread means I think Kadima will do well in the next election. But that is because I think very lowly of Mofaz's political skills and mass appeal, and I think a better politician could have entered the coalition and come out looking better than Mofaz can.
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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2012, 07:00:12 pm »
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Coming into coalition w/ Netaniyahu "from the left" is suicidal. Barak's not a complete nincompoop: he, actually, managed to get to be a PM, didn't he? And look what's this done to him.

Being associated w/ the "wrong sort" ...  Kadima is, essentially, a Likud splinter, graced w/ a few ex-Laborites for a show.  Are they REALLY associated w/ different people?

The problem is not being a coalition w/ Netaniyahu - The United Israel YB shows that one can be very successful in this coalition. The problem is, Kadima has no reason to exist if it is merely a junior partner in such a coalition. It may be the right decision for individual members of the party - as long as they just go back and rejoin Likud (probably, they should have never left). But as a political entity Kadima will be squeezed  to nothing pretty shortly and pretty thoroughly, methinks.  
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2012, 09:14:24 pm »
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Coming into coalition w/ Netaniyahu "from the left" is suicidal. Barak's not a complete nincompoop: he, actually, managed to get to be a PM, didn't he? And look what's this done to him.

Being associated w/ the "wrong sort" ...  Kadima is, essentially, a Likud splinter, graced w/ a few ex-Laborites for a show.  Are they REALLY associated w/ different people?

The problem is not being a coalition w/ Netaniyahu - The United Israel YB shows that one can be very successful in this coalition. The problem is, Kadima has no reason to exist if it is merely a junior partner in such a coalition. It may be the right decision for individual members of the party - as long as they just go back and rejoin Likud (probably, they should have never left). But as a political entity Kadima will be squeezed  to nothing pretty shortly and pretty thoroughly, methinks.  


Kadima could have worked, and it wasn't a bad idea to join it at the time.  The problem was that, as Sharon's personal vehicle, it got saddled with terrible luck as first Sharon died went into a Persistent Vegetative State, and it had even worse luck by having Sharon's successor be the hapless Ehud Olmert.  Kadima's first few years were a debacle that probably guaranteed it wouldn't survive for the long haul.

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« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2012, 06:31:57 am »
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And Olmert was one of responsibles for Likud's ressurection, as he invited Lieberman to cabinet. Without that, YB would replace Likud as main right-wing party and Likud would be by now, ended, or a small rump. If Sharon had knowledge of his fate, he would put a better deputy and Kadima would remain by long, as a 2nd coming of old Labour as natural government party of Israel.
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« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2012, 11:53:46 am »
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Coming into coalition w/ Netaniyahu "from the left" is suicidal. Barak's not a complete nincompoop: he, actually, managed to get to be a PM, didn't he? And look what's this done to him.

Barak's problem is that while he can get into positions of power, he tends become hated after that. His big loss of popularity happened not when he entered Likuds coalition, but during his tenure as PM.

Being associated w/ the "wrong sort" ...  Kadima is, essentially, a Likud splinter, graced w/ a few ex-Laborites for a show.  Are they REALLY associated w/ different people?



That may be so but in 2009 Likud and Kadima had very different electorates nonetheless. The former looked like the classic Likud electorate, being stronger in poorer cities especially in the periphery, and rural Mizrachi areas. Whereas Kadima was clearly a more left wing electorate being stronger in wealthy cities in the centre and the Askenazi rural areas.
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