Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 31, 2014, 10:19:23 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: True Federalist, Former Moderate, Badger)
| | |-+  Joe Biden endorses gay marriage
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Print
Author Topic: Joe Biden endorses gay marriage  (Read 1931 times)
Governor TJ
TJ in Cleve
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4984
United States


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2012, 10:24:23 am »
Ignore

Dictionaries can be changed. That much is only a function of language.
Logged

Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18305
United States


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2012, 11:08:18 am »
Ignore

Dictionaries can be changed. That much is only a function of language.

then be honest - you want to redefine marriage.
Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
Governor TJ
TJ in Cleve
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4984
United States


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2012, 11:23:39 am »
Ignore

Dictionaries can be changed. That much is only a function of language.

then be honest - you want to redefine marriage.

I never said I wanted to, just that it could be done by the standard he's presenting. That's a huge difference.
Logged

opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47609


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2012, 11:49:42 am »
Ignore

...as it was in the days of Lot, even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

You mean they had a nice Vice President then too?
Logged

The essence of democracy at its purest is a lynch mob

Gravis Marketing
brittain33
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12966


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2012, 12:17:05 pm »
Ignore

Dictionaries can be changed. That much is only a function of language.

then be honest - you want to redefine marriage.

There's a long tradition of redefining marriage, starting from the creation of civil marriage, the change in women's status from property to equal partner, changing views on divorce, the allowance of interfaith marriages, development of marriage for love, development of marriage for seniors, and the legalization of interracial marriage. Within the current definition of marriage, allowing same-sex unions to be counted is not as dramatic as other changes.
Logged
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18305
United States


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2012, 12:47:22 pm »
Ignore

Dictionaries can be changed. That much is only a function of language.

then be honest - you want to redefine marriage.

There's a long tradition of redefining marriage, starting from the creation of civil marriage, the change in women's status from property to equal partner, changing views on divorce, the allowance of interfaith marriages, development of marriage for love, development of marriage for seniors, and the legalization of interracial marriage. Within the current definition of marriage, allowing same-sex unions to be counted is not as dramatic as other changes.

dude, those are NOT changes to the definition of marriage, for there are thousands of years of history.

Heck, you can find examples of everything bolded, even in the bible.

Historically, you had recognition of marriages without a certificate of marriage (the couple simply had to present themselves to the public as husband and wife), marriages between seniors, marriages between the races.

Though, I have no idea what you mean by “development of marriage for love”…as if marrying for love’s sake is something new…as if it was always forced and pre-arranged?


Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12700


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2012, 01:13:32 pm »
Ignore

It was certainly considered a type of business contract in most civilizations. Maybe among the peasantry there was greater leeway but that's certainly not normative in the historical record.

Marriage really isn't one of those things that you can present as normative from and for eternity (at least, not from a historical perspective; from a religious perspective you certainly can if you're not hung up on the historical perspective) without going through some pretty convoluted retroactive redefinition anyway.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 01:34:38 pm by Nathan »Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18305
United States


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2012, 01:41:54 pm »
Ignore

It was certainly considered a type of business contract in most civilizations. Maybe among the peasantry there was greater leeway but that's certainly not normative in the historical record.

Marriage really isn't one of those things that you can present as normative from and for eternity (at least, not from a historical perspective; from a religious perspective you certainly can if you're not hung up on the historical perspective) without going through some pretty convoluted retroactive redefinition anyway.

are you saying the bible doesn't view marriage as a contract of love?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 02:15:22 pm by consigliere jmfcst »Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
oakvale
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9184
Ireland, Republic of
Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -4.00

View Profile
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2012, 02:13:22 pm »
Ignore

Could someone explain to me what the legal difference between civil unions and marriage for same-sex couples is in the United States?
Logged

Grumps
GM3PRP
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 34312
Korea, Democratic People's Republic of
View Profile
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2012, 02:20:27 pm »
Ignore

Could someone explain to me what the legal difference between civil unions and marriage for same-sex couples is in the United States?

Aside from taxes and health insurance and all the privileges married couples enjoy?
Logged

I only had 3 sandwiches instead of my normal 4.

Also, shut up NewYorkExpress you creep.



Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18305
United States


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2012, 02:22:44 pm »
Ignore

Could someone explain to me what the legal difference between civil unions and marriage for same-sex couples is in the United States?

Aside from taxes and health insurance and all the privileges married couples enjoy?

actually, for the vast majority of cases, there is a tax penalty for being married.

and, what, exactly are these "privileges"?
Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
greenforest32
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2579


Political Matrix
E: -7.94, S: -8.43

View Profile
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2012, 02:37:43 pm »
Ignore

Could someone explain to me what the legal difference between civil unions and marriage for same-sex couples is in the United States?

Main legal difference is recognition I believe.

There has been no compact for states to recognize other states' civil unions like there has been for marriage (in addition to making the federal government not recognize any same-sex marriage, the federal DOMA law also said states can choose to avoid to recognize other states' marriages if it is between a same-sex couple) and there are many federal legal rights and benefits (such as spousal/survivor Social Security benefits) that civil unions will not confer unless the statutes are rewritten to include civil unions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States
Logged
asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12700


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2012, 02:39:17 pm »
Ignore

It was certainly considered a type of business contract in most civilizations. Maybe among the peasantry there was greater leeway but that's certainly not normative in the historical record.

Marriage really isn't one of those things that you can present as normative from and for eternity (at least, not from a historical perspective; from a religious perspective you certainly can if you're not hung up on the historical perspective) without going through some pretty convoluted retroactive redefinition anyway.

are you saying the bible doesn't view marriage as a contract of love?

Well, I mean, that's normative within the Bible, certainly, but it's hard to argue that it's the case with every specific marriage presented or discussed. I'm not really discussing the Bible here anyway, more the general way things were structured in ancient societies (and many modern societies, for that matter).
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11737
Russian Federation


View Profile WWW
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2012, 03:04:07 pm »
Ignore

Marriage for love as an ideal has always existed, though other concerns have often taken precedence.
Logged

asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12700


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2012, 03:14:35 pm »
Ignore

Marriage for love as an ideal has always existed, though other concerns have often taken precedence.

Exactly. What constitutes that ideal is culturally specific, as is how frequently it's upheld, but that core has always been there. The point is that practically nothing else, certainly nothing of the practice, has been universal.
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
An extra hour of sleep.
The Obamanation
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6094
United States


View Profile
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2012, 03:57:11 pm »
Ignore

...as it was in the days of Noah, even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Fixed. Don't misquote The Bible for your own benefit.
Logged
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18305
United States


View Profile
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2012, 04:09:26 pm »
Ignore

...as it was in the days of Lot Noah, even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Fixed. Don't misquote The Bible for your own benefit.

are you serious?  it wasn't a quote, it was a paraphrase, here is the actual quote:

Luke 17:26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.  28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed".

So, either way you slice it, my statement may not have been verbatim, but it was still accurate.
Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
black and white band photos
BRTD
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 72587
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2012, 11:00:20 pm »
Ignore

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/06/478786/biden-marriage

So bets on when Obama does? I'll say February 2013.

February 2015. Dude has a midterm election to get through.

Well we both were quite off.
Logged




01/05/2004-01/10/2014
Pages: 1 [2] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines