potential trade policy (read thread)

[dead0man]

Should we limit trade with countries that don't have (or don't enforce) modern environmental and labor laws?  I'm very much for free trade, generally speaking, but it seems to me that if we won't let Bob's House of Toy Manufacturing build a factory in Toledo that belches hydrocarbons into the air while making his underpaid employees clean up an asbestos spill in their underwear (so they don't steal any of his precious asbestos), we probably shouldn't let Bob build his factory in the Chinese country side either and then sell his lead painted toys to our kids.  Of course, even if we wanted to, we couldn't just pass this today and enforce it tomorrow, it would wreck the economy.  But it seems we could pass it now and enforce it in 5 years with minimal damage to our economy.

So, what do we think, could we, should we?  I think we could accomplish a lot of worthwhile goals going this route.  Cleaner environment, more factory jobs for America's less educated, screws the PRC, helps other, more responsible developing nations.  Our disposable crap will be slightly more expensive.  I'm sure there are a few other pros and cons I'm forgetting or are not smart enough to think of, and that's where you all come in.

[Gustaf]

One of the general problems with protectionist policies is that they tend to look better on paper than in reality.

Lobby groups will tend to push for regulations that while supposedly are about environmental standards and whatnot, in actuality are just about shutting out competition.

To some extent such laws are needed (aren't there plenty of such regulations already?) but I don't think it should go too far. Poorer countries should be given more leeway than richer ones when it comes to labour protection and such things.

[dead0man]

Aye.  Does it matter if the goal isn't "protectionist" in nature?

[Gustaf]

The problem with these kind of measures is that they are inherently fuzzy. What standards should be applied and who will decide whether a good or a company meets that standard or not? This is likely to be influenced by lobby groups which have an interest in shutting out foreign competition.

[dead0man]

Is there anything we can do that could work?  I'm no environut, but closing down dirty factories here and moving them to China really does nothing to help the environment.  It just moves it out of our backyard.  Do we just have to wait until there is a strong middle class everywhere to stand up and bitch about local environmental issues?

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Yes, I guess. I'm not a huge fan of having restrictions on Free Trade, but I can see the point for some of them. There are certain cases where I support Fair Trade over Free Trade.

[politicus]

Votes yes, but sceptical.
It sounds good, but may be unrealistic IRL. Any kind of fair trade regime is difficult to implement in practice, but on the other hand it might be a necesarry tool to avoid a "race to the bottom". It will depend upon the exact design of th policy if it is a good idea.

[California8429]

I voted yes, though with the points Gustaf made.

Changes like this would hurt the economy as you've stated, so it would have to be a very slow and gradual process. But I think it is important overall. I mean, we all can't have the exact same environmental codes, but China is not near the US restrictions or western Europe so there is a huge gap. I support competition and the free market, but right now we're forcing our companies to invest a great deal into regulation (some good some red tape) while meanwhile fighting undercutting foreign prices who give basically no wage to their employees and completely destroy the environment.

[k-onmmunist]

Definitely.

[Napoleon]

I support free trade but it should come from agreements and treaties rather than an open-door policy. Restricting trade to those nations won't help them develop, it will give them incentive to exploit their own people to a greater degree in order to remain competitive. This is basic economics.

[courts]

yes (d)

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I support free trade but it should come from agreements and treaties rather than an open-door policy. Restricting trade to those nations won't help them develop, it will give them incentive to exploit their own people to a greater degree in order to remain competitive. This is basic economics.

I generally agree with this, but one question- do you support our trade policy with China?

[LastVoter]

Of Course.

[Napoleon]

I support free trade but it should come from agreements and treaties rather than an open-door policy. Restricting trade to those nations won't help them develop, it will give them incentive to exploit their own people to a greater degree in order to remain competitive. This is basic economics.

I generally agree with this, but one question- do you support our trade policy with China?

We would do well to apply more pressure. It is somewhat of a conflicting issue for me.

[morgieb]

Yes with a but. I feel that while this policy is good in theory it may not be pratical - if China and India are ruled out as trading partners, our economy will be ed.

[phk]

Support free trade with as many countries as possible.

[TNF]

Absolutely in favor of something like this.

[LiberalJunkie]

Yes defiantly

[Simfan34]

I support free trade but it should come from agreements and treaties rather than an open-door policy. Restricting trade to those nations won't help them develop, it will give them incentive to exploit their own people to a greater degree in order to remain competitive. This is basic economics.

I absolutely agree.