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| | |-+  Switzerland: An Initiative to Establish Basic Income for All
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Author Topic: Switzerland: An Initiative to Establish Basic Income for All  (Read 1654 times)
ZuWo
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« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2012, 03:38:27 am »
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Thanks for your response, I do appreciate it. To me banning minarets just seems like a way of pissing off/antagonizing a minority group for racist or xenophobic reasons. And how is a minaret symbolic of a form of Islam that is at odds with western society? This means you are saying that all of Islam is at odds with western society? Which means you are sending a not so friendly message to a minority community within your nation......

The Swiss minaret ban is a sign against a radical, political form of Islam which cannot be reconciled with our democratic values - but not against the religion itself since a minaret does not have a religious purpose here.

As Ayaan Hirsi Ali puts it:

"There are two ways to interpret the vote. First, as a rejection of political Islam, not a rejection of Muslims. In this sense it was a vote for tolerance and inclusion, which political Islam rejects. Second, the vote was a revelation of the big gap between how the Swiss people and the Swiss elite judge political Islam."

"The minaret is a symbol of Islamist supremacy, a token of domination that came to symbolize Islamic conquest. It was introduced decades after the founding of Islam."

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2009/1205/p09s01-coop.html

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« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2012, 03:56:21 am »
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I read that article and I still don't see how a minaret in itself is an expression of political Islam. The article does point out one thing correctly, and that is that minarets and other more expensive structures will only be built if there is enough of a population to sustain it. If there were not that many Muslims in Switzerland, a non-descript rented building would have to do. As the population grows larger, a bigger building with a minaret becomes feasible. If it's a symbol of anything, it is the growing Muslim population. I wonder, is that what the Swiss people really have a problem with?
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Franzl
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« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2012, 04:01:05 am »
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I'm assuming they have a problem with Muslim immigrants, yes. If they're against Germans, then I highly doubt they are tolerable of "that type" of immigrant.
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2012, 06:59:01 am »
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Xahar ought to have posted the classic referendum on granting women the right to vote. (The 1959 one, though the 1971 one is also chilling in places)

Alas, I couldn't find a map of that one quickly on Hashemite's blog. It's too bad it wasn't around back in 1959.

Quite sure I've seen Hashemite post a map of at least the 1979 referendum on here at some point. I wouldn't have known about it otherwise.
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« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2012, 10:08:23 am »
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... there is no muezzin who calls people to prayer.

Really?  Why wouldn't there be? I would assume once they got a minarette, they'd put that guy atop it.  Which would be incredibly annoying.
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« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2012, 02:57:27 pm »
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... there is no muezzin who calls people to prayer.

Really?  Why wouldn't there be? I would assume once they got a minarette, they'd put that guy atop it.  Which would be incredibly annoying.

It would be annoying so I would hope they wouldn't put a guy up there. Or even worse, a stereo system. They do that in India and its beyond annoying. They have built a minaret in the bay area iirc but there is no call to prayer from it afaik.
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Franzl
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« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2012, 03:03:29 pm »
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... there is no muezzin who calls people to prayer.

Really?  Why wouldn't there be? I would assume once they got a minarette, they'd put that guy atop it.  Which would be incredibly annoying.

It would be annoying so I would hope they wouldn't put a guy up there. Or even worse, a stereo system. They do that in India and its beyond annoying. They have built a minaret in the bay area iirc but there is no call to prayer from it afaik.

Well...I hate to say it, but there is a rather large double standard here. Church bells are allowed to ring without any protest. I think some people that like to sleep in on Sundays are very likely disturbed by this practice. If I don't go to Mass on a particular Sunday, I know they wake me up...

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« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2012, 03:59:26 pm »
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Yeah I would hate that just as much. I haven't ever heard church bells in Anerica before come to think of it....odd.
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Хahar
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« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2012, 10:35:06 pm »
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... there is no muezzin who calls people to prayer.

Really?  Why wouldn't there be? I would assume once they got a minarette, they'd put that guy atop it.  Which would be incredibly annoying.

It would be annoying so I would hope they wouldn't put a guy up there. Or even worse, a stereo system. They do that in India and its beyond annoying. They have built a minaret in the bay area iirc but there is no call to prayer from it afaik.

It's ridiculous, since it's not ever going to be used. It's a waste of money.
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« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2012, 11:23:40 pm »
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... there is no muezzin who calls people to prayer.

Really?  Why wouldn't there be? I would assume once they got a minarette, they'd put that guy atop it.  Which would be incredibly annoying.

It would be annoying so I would hope they wouldn't put a guy up there. Or even worse, a stereo system. They do that in India and its beyond annoying. They have built a minaret in the bay area iirc but there is no call to prayer from it afaik.

It's ridiculous, since it's not ever going to be used. It's a waste of money.

It makes the Silicon Valley "skyline" a little more interesting.
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YL
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« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2012, 12:18:17 pm »
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There is a fairly new big mosque in Sheffield, and it has minarets; I wouldn't have expected anything different, and don't see anything to do with "political Islam" in that.  I'm afraid I can't see that Swiss referendum result as anything other than petty Islamophobia.
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Comrade Sibboleth
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« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2012, 12:26:10 pm »
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There is a fairly new big mosque in Sheffield, and it has minarets; I wouldn't have expected anything different, and don't see anything to do with "political Islam" in that.  I'm afraid I can't see that Swiss referendum result as anything other than petty Islamophobia.

Could also be old-fashioned racism?
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Richard Hoggart 1918-2014
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