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Author Topic: Mitt Romney, high school bully?  (Read 5914 times)
Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #100 on: May 10, 2012, 04:44:14 pm »
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This thread is so bizarre on so many different levels.

Well, it's thread about Mittens, what did you expect?
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« Reply #101 on: May 10, 2012, 04:44:52 pm »
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Of course I am not happy to know that he is dead. I presumed he was the source of this story. Now I am hearing he never even brought it up.

This whole thing reeks just like the fake Bush AWOL letter did. The political timing cannot be ignored.

I really doubt that this is turn-around since the gay marriage story, considering that would literally be an overnight fabrication.  I think this is a virtually unfalsifiable story (in the scientific sense), but there are points of suspicion -- Romney basically non-denied this, and not remembering something like this is pretty un-charming; and the independent verification doesn't really scream snow-job.  Like I said, unfalsifiable, but...

AIDS destroyed a whole generation of gay men. Are people, especially informed people on here, really not aware of this? It is common knowledge, I thought, even amongst young people today.

You are apparently presuming that they likely made up this guy's being gay, because he lived to middle age.  What percent of gays who were alive before 1992 do you think died of AIDS, exactly?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:02:40 pm by Alcon »Logged

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« Reply #102 on: May 10, 2012, 04:57:28 pm »
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Michael Barone was a classmate of Romney's at the same elite private high school (Cranbrook), and said at that time Mittens was an insufferable brat. Some folks take awhile to grow up. Look at Dubya, who had to struggle for about 15 years to get into a neighborhood adjacent to being a responsible adult. But unlike some, both did in fact grow up.

I am not sure that I can make that claim. Tongue

The end.
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« Reply #103 on: May 10, 2012, 05:05:28 pm »
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You are apparently presuming that they likely made up this guy's being gay, because he lived to middle age.  What percent of gays who were alive before 1992 do you think died of AIDS, exactly?

100%, obvi. That is why I have never met a homosexual older than 35. They simply do not exist because they're all dead from AIDS.
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« Reply #104 on: May 10, 2012, 05:08:38 pm »
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You are apparently presuming that they likely made up this guy's being gay, because he lived to middle age.  What percent of gays who were alive before 1992 do you think died of AIDS, exactly?

100%, obvi. That is why I have never met a homosexual older than 35. They simply do not exist because they're all dead from AIDS.

That is all very interesting. Who knew?  Tongue
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« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2012, 05:11:27 pm »
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Barack Obama was snorting cocaine as an adult yet Mitt Romney is being attacked for something that may or may not have happened? And if this John Lauber was really a homosexual, he'd probably be dead by now given what happened to most homosexuals his age in the '80s and '90s (e.g., Freddie Mercury, Liberace, Rock Hudson, etc.)

Ummm.....what?

Almost every gay person I know who were born during the Baby Boom (i.e., 1946-1964) died of AIDS in the '80s or '90s. The only exception is one who was born in the early '60s.

Er, just how old are you Politico? Did you spend a lot of time with older gay men or something? Or maybe you need to get out more. Just a thought.
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« Reply #106 on: May 10, 2012, 05:12:15 pm »
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Of course I am not happy to know that he is dead. I presumed he was the source of this story. Now I am hearing he never even brought it up.

This whole thing reeks just like the fake Bush AWOL letter did. The political timing cannot be ignored.

I really doubt that this is turn-around since the gay marriage story, considering that would literally be an overnight fabrication.  I think this is a pretty unfalsifiable story (in the scientific sense), but there are points of suspicion -- Romney pretty much non-denied this, and not remembering something like this is pretty un-charming; and the independent verification doesn't really scream snow-job.  Like I said, unfalsifiable, but...

Is somebody innocent unless proven guilty, or guilty unless proven innocent? This story is neither verifiable nor falsifiable.

Quote
You are apparently presuming that they likely made up this guy's being gay, because he lived to middle age.

No, I am assuming somebody sat on this story, and thought it would be convenient to claim the guy was "presumed" gay now that gay marriage is a hot issue. Surely everybody on here can take off the partisan blinders and see that the timing is not coincidental...

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 What percent of gays who were alive before 1992 do you think died of AIDS, exactly?

That would be a wild guess for anybody, especially when you factor in all of the Roy Cohns of the world and such, but I am quite confident it is over 50% for those who were born before 1960 and were sexually active before 1980. A potential proxy may be comparing the number of open/closeted gay celebrities born before 1960 who died of AIDS compared to those who are still alive.  Obviously there is a whole list of the departed. In comparison, somebody ringed off two names that fit the criteria, and I am not sure we can consider Barney Frank a celebrity per se, and it is my understanding that Elton John was not sexually active in a gay way until the late 1980s.

Another thing to consider is that most people no longer die of AIDS in America. They take excruciatingly debilitating medication to keep their HIV from causing AIDS. For most of them, their ticker goes, or they die of cancer, before they officially develop AIDS. It's really bad, and it's awful the type of things people go through. The numbers are quite misleading. Ask people who are involved in this area of health care.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:17:20 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #107 on: May 10, 2012, 05:14:10 pm »
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They take excruciatingly debilitating medication

Are you writing a novel or something?  This is all quite creative I must say.
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« Reply #108 on: May 10, 2012, 05:16:16 pm »
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"The Washington Post can’t be bothered to worry about Barack Obama’s college years, college transcripts, communist friends, cocaine use, or cop-killing plotters in whose living room he first launched his major political career, but they can get in the really way back machine to 1965 and Mitt Romney’s high school years.

Mitt Romney cut a hippy’s hair at his preparatory high school. A day after Barack Obama caved on gay marriage, the Washington Post “coincidentally” says Mitt Romney cut the hair of a boy who “was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality.”

Let’s leave out the fact that the kid who got his haircut was subsequently thrown out of school for smoking one cigarette, but we’re to believe that the assailants of his hair, witnessed by many, were ignored. Oh, and the guy who got is hair cut never, ever, ever mentioned it, including to family, and died in 2004 so it can’t be verified. But a handful of students who now probably support Barack Obama have a crystal clear memory of events from 50 years ago. The people who were adults at the time of the incident and still alive have no memory of it, but remember Romney and said he was never a disciplinary problem."

what a joke of a story

It is a joke story! The media's quest to save Obama's failed presidency is getting even more sickening...I can't imagine what will happen over the next six months.
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« Reply #109 on: May 10, 2012, 05:20:05 pm »
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You are apparently presuming that they likely made up this guy's being gay, because he lived to middle age.  What percent of gays who were alive before 1992 do you think died of AIDS, exactly?

100%, obvi. That is why I have never met a homosexual older than 35. They simply do not exist because they're all dead from AIDS.

Any plans for the funeral, by the way?
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« Reply #110 on: May 10, 2012, 05:21:19 pm »
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Is somebody innocent unless proven guilty, or guilty unless proven innocent?

What about "it's unfalsifiable" makes you presume I think Romney should be assumed guilty?  Do I think he probably did it?  Yes.  Do I accept unfalsifiable claims because they seem intuitively likely?  No; that's obviously your racket.

No, I am assuming somebody sat on this story, and thought it would be convenient to claim the guy was "presumed" gay now that gay marriage is a hot issue. Surely everybody on here can take off the partisan blinders and see that the timing is not coincidental...

...I think you're kind of missing the irony between this and your last paragraph.

That would be a wild guess for anybody, especially when you factor in all of the Roy Cohns of the world and such, but I am quite confident it is well over 50% for those who were born before 1960 and were sexually active before 1980. A potential proxy may be comparing the number of open/closeted gay celebrities born before 1960 who died of AIDS compared to those who are still alive.  Obviously there is a whole list of the departed. In comparison, somebody ringed off two names that fit the criteria, and I am not sure we can consider Barney Frank a celebrity per se, and it is my understanding that Elton John was not sexually active in a gay way until the late 1980s.

...exactly why does it matter if Barney Frank is a "celebrity" considering the population you're attempting to estimate?  I'm not one to accuse others of over-thinking, but you think pretty weirdly about this.

You seem to assume by default secondhand information about people being gay is false if they were of age to be sexually active in the 1980s.  What percentage of gays would have had to die of HIV before you consider your presumption to be valid?  What is the "cut-off" point, and what is your intuitive guess about what the number likely is?

Another thing to consider is that most people no longer die of AIDS in America. They take excruciatingly debilitating medication to keep their HIV from causing AIDS. For most of them, their ticker goes, or they die of cancer, before they officially develop AIDS. It's really bad, and it's awful the type of things people go through. The numbers are quite misleading. Ask people who are involved in this area of health care.

Or you could, you know, find statistics instead of making these anecdotal leaps you're making.
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« Reply #111 on: May 10, 2012, 05:23:14 pm »
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They take excruciatingly debilitating medication

Are you writing a novel or something?  This is all quite creative I must say.

Come on, Torie. It's ing awful what happened, and what is happening. It's not as bad, obviously, but it's still bad. I lost a cousin in 1987. I've talked to folks in health care, and they've told me about the side effects many folks have with the medications of the past twenty years, and how many people eventually just have one of their organs give out, or watch cancer take over. And, myself, I think it's awful how many people have no idea what they're leading themselves into without knowing the full threat. It's not diabetes. It's more like multiple sclerosis now. A painful, painful condition that nobody should have to endure.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:34:15 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #112 on: May 10, 2012, 05:30:45 pm »
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This thread was entertaining.  We should have more of them.  That's the good part about Romney.  He'll provide us with plenty of bizarre things to spend 10 pages debating and sharing stories.
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« Reply #113 on: May 10, 2012, 05:32:47 pm »
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Is somebody innocent unless proven guilty, or guilty unless proven innocent?

What about "it's unfalsifiable" makes you presume I think Romney should be assumed guilty?  Do I think he probably did it?  Yes.  Do I accept unfalsifiable claims because they seem intuitively likely?  No; that's obviously your racket.

I believe somebody is innocent unless proven guilty. I know things work differently in some places, but I thought that's how it worked in America.

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...I think you're kind of missing the irony between this and your last paragraph.

Then you're overestimating the importance of our posts on here, not to mention over-analyzing them. This place is first and foremost about quantitative election results, and secondly about entertainment and becoming better informed. IMHO, anyway. It certainly does not constitute anything becoming political football. This place is not important enough for that.

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...exactly why does it matter if Barney Frank is a "celebrity" considering the population you're attempting to estimate?  I'm not one to accuse others of over-thinking, but you think pretty weirdly about this.

Like I said, the best we can do is come up with a proxy to help answer your question. I suggested gay/closeted celebrities born before 1960 and sexually active before 1980. You are free to come up with a better proxy.

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what is your intuitive guess about what the number likely is?

If forced to give a hypothesis, 60% +/- 15%.

Another thing to consider is that most people no longer die of AIDS in America. They take excruciatingly debilitating medication to keep their HIV from causing AIDS. For most of them, their ticker goes, or they die of cancer, before they officially develop AIDS. It's really bad, and it's awful the type of things people go through. The numbers are quite misleading. Ask people who are involved in this area of health care.

Or you could, you know, find statistics instead of making these anecdotal leaps you're making.
[/quote]

I would love to use statistics, but when somebody dies of a heart attack or cancer their death is classified as death due to heart disease or cancer regardless of the HIV status of the deceased. The only way to even know what's really going on is to talk to health care service providers, including doctors, who are involved with treating HIV patients.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:43:59 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #114 on: May 10, 2012, 05:40:02 pm »
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This election cycle might not be as boring as I thought.
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« Reply #115 on: May 10, 2012, 05:43:09 pm »
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I believe somebody is innocent unless proven guilty. I know things work differently in some places, but I thought that's how it worked in America.

I am failing to understand why you think I disagree with you.  I said it's unfalsifiable and I didn't mean that positively.  However, my personal sense of judgment is not the same as the legal system's sense of judgment.  I get to be a bit more actuarial, you know?

Then you're overestimating the importance of our posts on here, not to mention over-analyzing them. This place is first and foremost about quantitative election results, and secondly about entertainment. IMHO, anyway.

I'm not sure why you think apparent internal inconsistency is "entertaining."

Like I said, the best we can do is come up with a proxy to help answer your question. I suggested gay/closeted celebrities born before 1960 and sexually active before 1980. You are free to come up with a better proxy.

I assume you're looking at gay celebrities because information on them is accessible, even though it's obviously an unrepresentative sample.  Then, you exclude someone from the analysis because they're not in the unrepresentative group, even though information on him is accessible.  It doesn't make sense.

If forced to give a hypothesis, 60% +/- 15%.

So, a 60% chance of a gay man of his age dying of AIDS -> assuming that his gayness was fabricated, because 60% is so overwhelmingly probabilistic?  What exactly is your cut-off for probabilistic enough to presume fabrication - 50.0001%?

I would love to use statistics, but when somebody dies of a heart attack or cancer their death is classified as death due to heart disease or cancer regardless of the HIV status of the deceased. The only way to even know what's really going on is to talk to health care workers who are involved with treating HIV patients.

You need to watch more cop procedurals.  Underlying causes of death are also listed.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:46:29 pm by Alcon »Logged

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« Reply #116 on: May 10, 2012, 05:44:59 pm »
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Some people mentioned the Bush AWOL letter, but this screams more of the New York Times John McCain quasi affair with lobbyist hit piece that was as I recall right after he locked up the nomination...  
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« Reply #117 on: May 10, 2012, 06:03:59 pm »
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I believe somebody is innocent unless proven guilty. I know things work differently in some places, but I thought that's how it worked in America.

I am failing to understand why you think I disagree with you.  I said it's unfalsifiable and I didn't mean that positively.  However, my personal sense of judgment is not the same as the legal system's sense of judgment.  I get to be a bit more actuarial, you know?

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but nobody is entitled to their own facts. The fact of the matter is that this story is both unverifiable and unfalsifiable. Some people will believe something that can never be proven nor disproved. I choose to not believe something that is not proven and cannot be proven, especially when political timing is all so convenient.

Quote
I'm not sure why you think apparent internal inconsistency is "entertaining."

I am not being inconsistent. We are merely having a communication breakdown, and it's probably my fault because I am exhausted and have a lot on the go.

Quote
I assume you're looking at gay celebrities because information on them is accessible, even though it's obviously an unrepresentative sample.  Then, you exclude someone from the analysis because they're not in the unrepresentative group, even though information on him is accessible.  It doesn't make sense.

Like I said, the best we can use is a proxy to give us an idea of how devastating it was to a whole generation of gay men before medications became readily available. Everybody knows that homosexuals tend to dominate the arts. And clearly a whole generation of homosexuals in the arts were devastated by a deadly disease. Now perhaps it hit homosexuals in the arts harder than homosexuals outside of the arts, but I still believe it's a pretty good proxy after you downgrade the figures by 20 or 30 points in order to give a conservative guess.

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So, a 60% chance of a gay man of his age dying of AIDS -> assuming that his gayness was fabricated, because 60% is so overwhelmingly probabilistic?

No, I am suggesting that 60% +/- 15% of homosexual men born between 1940-1960 who were sexually active before 1980 became victims of AIDS/HIV.

Quote
You need to watch more cop procedurals.  Underlying causes of death are also listed.

When somebody with HIV dies of a heart attack, they are added to national statistics as being casualties of heart disease, not AIDS. When somebody with HIV dies of cancer, they are added to national statistics as being casualties of cancer, not AIDS. If somebody with HIV never develops AIDS, they cannot be listed as having died of complications from AIDS. The medications of the past twenty years are largely preventing HIV from causing AIDS in most cases, but they are only prolonging an inevitable death, although by a considerable amount (on average, they are probably adding 10-15 years compared to if one went without treatment). Eventually the heart goes, or cancer develops, and takes out the victim. The bottomline: It's not diabetes, even if most everybody wants to pretend it is.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 06:08:02 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #118 on: May 10, 2012, 06:26:38 pm »
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There really is something wrong with you isn't there?
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« Reply #119 on: May 10, 2012, 06:58:32 pm »
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There really is something wrong with you isn't there?

There's something wrong with all of us, I'm sure. I mean, this is an uber geeky obsession of ours (i.e., election results...watching returns on Election Day sometimes gives me more of a high than the Super Bowl).

As for other stuff in this thread, I am just saying it like it is. Maybe it will save somebody's life/health.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 07:03:45 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #120 on: May 10, 2012, 07:03:55 pm »
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I choose to not believe something that is not proven and cannot be proven, especially when political timing is all so convenient.

The most enigmatic quote from the second wife:

She said when Gingrich admitted to a six-year affair with a Congressional aide, he asked her if she would share him with the other woman, Callista, who is now married to Gingrich.

"And I just stared at him and he said, 'Callista doesn't care what I do,'" Marianne Gingrich told ABC News. "He wanted an open marriage and I refused."

Marianne described her "shock" at Gingrich's behavior, including how she says she learned he conducted his affair with Callista "in my bedroom in our apartment in Washington."

"He always called me at night," she recalled, "and always ended with 'I love you.' Well, she was listening."

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive-gingrich-lacks-moral-character-president-wife/story?id=15392899#.Txjbj4FnSuI

So what DOES he do that Callista doesn't care about him doing? Or, perhaps more aptly, WHO does he do that Callista doesn't care about?

Can you say, "Monica Lewinsky: Republican Edition"?

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/182731/march-12-2007/newt-gingrich-s-extramarital-affair

Ron Paul was right about Newt's SERIAL HYPOCRISY...
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« Reply #121 on: May 10, 2012, 07:04:53 pm »
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This election cycle might not be as boring as I thought.
Well it's not boring because we get to watch Mitt shoot himself in the foot, but the election is hilariously predictable after Obama endorsed gay marriage, unless fate throws us a curve ball and a catastrophic event makes election competitive again.
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« Reply #122 on: May 10, 2012, 07:10:44 pm »
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I choose to not believe something that is not proven and cannot be proven, especially when political timing is all so convenient.

The most enigmatic quote from the second wife:

She said when Gingrich admitted to a six-year affair with a Congressional aide, he asked her if she would share him with the other woman, Callista, who is now married to Gingrich.

"And I just stared at him and he said, 'Callista doesn't care what I do,'" Marianne Gingrich told ABC News. "He wanted an open marriage and I refused."

Marianne described her "shock" at Gingrich's behavior, including how she says she learned he conducted his affair with Callista "in my bedroom in our apartment in Washington."

"He always called me at night," she recalled, "and always ended with 'I love you.' Well, she was listening."

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive-gingrich-lacks-moral-character-president-wife/story?id=15392899#.Txjbj4FnSuI

So what DOES he do that Callista doesn't care about him doing? Or, perhaps more aptly, WHO does he do that Callista doesn't care about?

Can you say, "Monica Lewinsky: Republican Edition"?

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/182731/march-12-2007/newt-gingrich-s-extramarital-affair

Ron Paul was right about Newt's SERIAL HYPOCRISY...

Flip-flopping. Guilty as charged. What do you expect from a Romney supporter? Tongue

Seriously, though, are we comparing something that may or may not have happened nearly 50 years ago when Romney was a teenager to something Newt Gingrich did not once, but twice, and maybe even more times? Gingrich has confessed to cheating twice. It's not a stretch to imagine him saying, "Callista doesn't care what I do," but you are right: I can neither prove nor disprove he said that. There are exceptions to every rule, as they say Tongue
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 07:12:53 pm by Politico »Logged

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« Reply #123 on: May 10, 2012, 07:12:29 pm »
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There really is something wrong with you isn't there?

There's something wrong with all of us, I'm sure. I mean, this is an uber geeky obsession of ours (i.e., election results...watching returns on Election Day sometimes gives me more of a high than the Super Bowl).

As for other stuff in this thread, I am just saying it like it is. Maybe it will save somebody's life/health.

On point 1... sure.

Point 2... you're talking out of ... well, you get my point. I just need to understand the EXACT point you're making... you doubt the guy is really gay, because at his age... he should have died of AIDS?

As someone who's done a lot of work with HIV/AIDS research... I'd LOVE to see where you get that apart from your need to prove a point.
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« Reply #124 on: May 10, 2012, 07:20:04 pm »
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There really is something wrong with you isn't there?

There's something wrong with all of us, I'm sure. I mean, this is an uber geeky obsession of ours (i.e., election results...watching returns on Election Day sometimes gives me more of a high than the Super Bowl).

As for other stuff in this thread, I am just saying it like it is. Maybe it will save somebody's life/health.

On point 1... sure.

Point 2... you're talking out of ... well, you get my point. I just need to understand the EXACT point you're making... you doubt the guy is really gay, because at his age... he should have died of AIDS?

Absolutely not. Nobody should die of AIDS. I never said or indicated any such thing. I simply doubted the guy was really gay because:

1) Use of the qualified "presumed"

2) The timing of the release of this story

3) Because if he was really gay, the likelihood of him being alive and gay is probably lower than being dead by virtue of the fact that AIDS wiped out most homosexuals of his generation (i.e., those born in the '40s).

As previously noted, I assumed he was alive and the key source of this story. Alas, he is not alive. Apparently he died in 2004. Apparently he never spoke of this incident to a single soul, which leaves one to wonder if it is really true.

In any case, Romney has not been a teenager for nearly half a century. And even what he is accused of is fairly mild by 1960s standards, especially if one removes the "presumed homosexual" aspect that is so politically convenient at this moment in time. When Romney was a teenager, I STRONGLY doubt that he EVER thought of ANYBODY as being a homosexual. I mean, we are talking about a guy who grew up in the '50s and early '60s. I just do not buy that Romney picked on a guy cause he presumed he was a homosexual. It's a rather absurd notion, really, given the era he grew up in. It would be a different story if we were talking about the late '60s-onward.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 07:29:39 pm by Politico »Logged

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