Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 24, 2014, 12:18:42 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Political Debate (Moderator: Beet)
| | |-+  "Paying for someone else"
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Poll
Question: We all have to do this....but what would you rather do?
Pay for someone else to be excluded from society.   -15 (35.7%)
Pay for someone else and perhaps have a small chance of someone for someone to pay me back.   -27 (64.3%)
Show Pie Chart
Total Voters: 42

Author Topic: "Paying for someone else"  (Read 2574 times)
Deliverance
Angry_Weasel
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12857


View Profile
« on: May 13, 2012, 02:27:03 pm »
Ignore

Well?
Logged


"Making Congress Squeal!"- Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA)
the result is a sense that we were told to attend a lavish dinner party that was going to be wonderful and by the time we got there, all the lobster and steak had been eaten, a fight had broken out, the police had been called and all that was left was warm beer and chips.
#Ready4Nixon
Cathcon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15336
United States


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2012, 02:40:25 pm »
Ignore

What? I get this is some bated illegal immigration question, but please help me decipher option two.
Logged

dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22763
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2012, 03:18:12 pm »
Ignore

Could you word these loaded questions better?
Logged

Deliverance
Angry_Weasel
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12857


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2012, 08:11:53 pm »
Ignore

Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.
Logged


"Making Congress Squeal!"- Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA)
the result is a sense that we were told to attend a lavish dinner party that was going to be wonderful and by the time we got there, all the lobster and steak had been eaten, a fight had broken out, the police had been called and all that was left was warm beer and chips.
Scott
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18750
United States
View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2012, 12:00:31 am »
Ignore

Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.

Especially since the vast majority of these complainers have "had someone else pay for them" some point in their lifetime.
Logged
Vosem
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5660
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 05:51:04 am »
Ignore

Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.

I suppose Option #1 as a sort of protest vote, since you clearly intend to have people vote for Option #2. Funnily enough, I'm tired of the exact opposite view you're tired of. And I'm tired of Internet incoherency.
Logged

Illegally selling arms to North Korea, providing most of the money to anti-Morales rebels in Bolivia, and using the remainder as hush money for his three ex-mistrisses. 
Deliverance
Angry_Weasel
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12857


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2012, 11:19:50 am »
Ignore

I guess you could say that option #1 is basically someone paying for a benefit for themselves...paying the state to "take out their trash". Then again, that's "three hots and a cot" for some 'tard, isn't it?

This is probably why capital punishment is so popular amongst antiabortion neoliberal nationalists who would be prinicipally opposed to anything that goes against their priniciples otherwise.

but another argument could be made that you are paying off the trash when you do "pay for someone else".
Logged


"Making Congress Squeal!"- Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA)
the result is a sense that we were told to attend a lavish dinner party that was going to be wonderful and by the time we got there, all the lobster and steak had been eaten, a fight had broken out, the police had been called and all that was left was warm beer and chips.
opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47607


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 06:18:46 am »
Ignore

It  is a bit of a misunderstanding to say that one can 'pay for someone else'.  If you have money beyond subsistence (say in the US anything over 30k-50k/year), you already have a privilege taken from someone else, and certainly all of the vast incomes of the owners are 'paid by someone else' - namely those they control through ownership.
Logged

The essence of democracy at its purest is a lynch mob

Camerlengo Alfred of the Papal Patch
Alfred F. Jones
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8858
United States


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 08:50:18 pm »
Ignore

It  is a bit of a misunderstanding to say that one can 'pay for someone else'.  If you have money beyond subsistence (say in the US anything over 30k-50k/year), you already have a privilege taken from someone else, and certainly all of the vast incomes of the owners are 'paid by someone else' - namely those they control through ownership.

Do you believe that you don't have the right to anything beyond a basic living?
Logged



There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

Alfred is the Atlasian equivalent of a malevolent deity.

Lowly Griff
Adam Griffin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6177
Greece


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 02:11:04 pm »
Ignore

It  is a bit of a misunderstanding to say that one can 'pay for someone else'.  If you have money beyond subsistence (say in the US anything over 30k-50k/year), you already have a privilege taken from someone else, and certainly all of the vast incomes of the owners are 'paid by someone else' - namely those they control through ownership.

Do you believe that you don't have the right to anything beyond a basic living?

As opebo said, it's a privilege, not a right. A better question would be: do you believe that everyone has the right to a basic living? When an individual earns or accumulates more than the average individual's salary or net worth, imbalance and inequality are created due to the fact there is now less money available in the economy to provide that basic quality of life to the same number of people. Wealth doesn't grow on trees; while it increases nominally, the increase relative to population increases makes it virtually stagnant.

Modern taxation - specifically progressive taxation - exists to make sure money continues to move around in a capitalist economy without being hoarded by those who can afford to hoard it.

So in summary: No, no one has the right to anything beyond a basic/average living because:

a) there is no way to guarantee that economic right
b) for every person given that economic right, there will be at least one person who will have theirs stripped away
Logged

The Obamas and Joe Biden visit the state in a highly publicized campaign event for Landrieu. Barack proudly declares Mary Landrieu to be a vital ally, reminding the audience that Obamacare wouldn't have passed without her vote, and Michelle accidentally calls her "Molly Langrove". Biden makes an offensive gaffe about Cajuns.

opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47607


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2012, 02:23:02 pm »
Ignore

Do you believe that you don't have the right to anything beyond a basic living?

No, I believe that superlative incomes - particularly those derived from ownership, but not only those - are derived from the enslavement of the working class.  The privilege that the upper class receives is in fact control of the majority - the fact that we call it 'income' or 'wealth' is just window-dressing.
Logged

The essence of democracy at its purest is a lynch mob

Camerlengo Alfred of the Papal Patch
Alfred F. Jones
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8858
United States


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 08:04:46 am »
Ignore

Do you believe that you don't have the right to anything beyond a basic living?

No, I believe that superlative incomes - particularly those derived from ownership, but not only those - are derived from the enslavement of the working class.  The privilege that the upper class receives is in fact control of the majority - the fact that we call it 'income' or 'wealth' is just window-dressing.
Oh, OK. I though you ere talking about the working class taking from the poor.
Logged



There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

Alfred is the Atlasian equivalent of a malevolent deity.

BritishDixie
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 294
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 04:58:16 am »
Ignore

Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.

Well because paying for a total strangers healthcare or education brings no discernible benefit to the person paying for them. On the other hand, paying to have your trash taken out does benefit the person, or to have someone who is a danger to society executed.
Logged

Economic score: +6.58
Social score: +5.04
Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22286
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 10:46:20 am »
Ignore

Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.

Well because paying for a total strangers healthcare or education brings no discernible benefit to the person paying for them. On the other hand, paying to have your trash taken out does benefit the person, or to have someone who is a danger to society executed.

Laughably incorrect.
Logged
BritishDixie
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 294
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 10:50:36 am »
Ignore

Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.

Well because paying for a total strangers healthcare or education brings no discernible benefit to the person paying for them. On the other hand, paying to have your trash taken out does benefit the person, or to have someone who is a danger to society executed.

Please back up your fantasy claims with facts on this issue.

Laughably incorrect.
Logged

Economic score: +6.58
Social score: +5.04
Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22286
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2012, 10:55:06 am »
Ignore

You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?
Logged
BritishDixie
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 294
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2012, 11:20:46 am »
Ignore

You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.
Logged

Economic score: +6.58
Social score: +5.04
asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12866


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2012, 12:41:07 pm »
Ignore

You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
BritishDixie
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 294
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2012, 12:43:25 pm »
Ignore

You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.

Witty barbs aside, what I mean is I would rather save some additional money for myself, or spend it on a holiday or a car, than pay for the education, healthcare and benefits of slum-dwelling drug addicts.
Logged

Economic score: +6.58
Social score: +5.04
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31303
France


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2012, 01:12:14 pm »
Ignore

You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.

Witty barbs aside, what I mean is I would rather save some additional money for myself, or spend it on a holiday or a car, than pay for the education, healthcare and benefits of slum-dwelling drug addicts.

There is no word that can express my feeling on reading this.
Logged

HashCAN     americans saw the EP elections and people cringing at Europeans being morons and electing Nazis; so they massively said "NO" and decided to prove that they're still bigger morons



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
BritishDixie
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 294
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2012, 01:19:23 pm »
Ignore

You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.

Witty barbs aside, what I mean is I would rather save some additional money for myself, or spend it on a holiday or a car, than pay for the education, healthcare and benefits of slum-dwelling drug addicts.

There is no word that can express my feeling on reading this.

I have done the impossible............Silenced a left-winger.....
Logged

Economic score: +6.58
Social score: +5.04
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31303
France


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2012, 01:24:32 pm »
Ignore

You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.

Witty barbs aside, what I mean is I would rather save some additional money for myself, or spend it on a holiday or a car, than pay for the education, healthcare and benefits of slum-dwelling drug addicts.

There is no word that can express my feeling on reading this.

I have done the impossible............Silenced a left-winger.....

If this is your goal at life, you can legitimately be proud of yourself.
Logged

HashCAN     americans saw the EP elections and people cringing at Europeans being morons and electing Nazis; so they massively said "NO" and decided to prove that they're still bigger morons



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
BritishDixie
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 294
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2012, 01:26:10 pm »
Ignore

I win! Smiley
Logged

Economic score: +6.58
Social score: +5.04
oakvale
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9272
Ireland, Republic of
View Profile
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2012, 03:00:10 pm »
Ignore

You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.

Witty barbs aside, what I mean is I would rather save some additional money for myself, or spend it on a holiday or a car, than pay for the education, healthcare and benefits of slum-dwelling drug addicts.

I wonder what it's like experiencing life as an actively awful person.
Logged

shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11882
Kuwait


View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2012, 04:04:06 pm »
Ignore

I'd personally be happier to spend money to help provide something like healthcare or education than killing or excluding someone from society. However, defense and criminal justice is an essential function of government, whereas charity is not.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 04:09:41 pm by shua, gm »Logged

Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines