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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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| |-+  Political Debate (Moderator: Beet)
| | |-+  "Paying for someone else"
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Poll
Question: We all have to do this....but what would you rather do?
Pay for someone else to be excluded from society.   -15 (35.7%)
Pay for someone else and perhaps have a small chance of someone for someone to pay me back.   -27 (64.3%)
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Total Voters: 42

Author Topic: "Paying for someone else"  (Read 2218 times)
MooMooMoo
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« on: May 13, 2012, 02:27:03 pm »
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Well?
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the result is a sense that we were told to attend a lavish dinner party that was going to be wonderful and by the time we got there, all the lobster and steak had been eaten, a fight had broken out, the police had been called and all that was left was warm beer and chips.
[/quot
#Ready4Nixon
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2012, 02:40:25 pm »
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What? I get this is some bated illegal immigration question, but please help me decipher option two.
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dead0man
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2012, 03:18:12 pm »
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Could you word these loaded questions better?
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
MooMooMoo
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2012, 08:11:53 pm »
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Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.
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the result is a sense that we were told to attend a lavish dinner party that was going to be wonderful and by the time we got there, all the lobster and steak had been eaten, a fight had broken out, the police had been called and all that was left was warm beer and chips.
[/quot
Emperor Scott
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2012, 12:00:31 am »
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Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.

Especially since the vast majority of these complainers have "had someone else pay for them" some point in their lifetime.
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 05:51:04 am »
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Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.

I suppose Option #1 as a sort of protest vote, since you clearly intend to have people vote for Option #2. Funnily enough, I'm tired of the exact opposite view you're tired of. And I'm tired of Internet incoherency.
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MooMooMoo
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2012, 11:19:50 am »
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I guess you could say that option #1 is basically someone paying for a benefit for themselves...paying the state to "take out their trash". Then again, that's "three hots and a cot" for some 'tard, isn't it?

This is probably why capital punishment is so popular amongst antiabortion neoliberal nationalists who would be prinicipally opposed to anything that goes against their priniciples otherwise.

but another argument could be made that you are paying off the trash when you do "pay for someone else".
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the result is a sense that we were told to attend a lavish dinner party that was going to be wonderful and by the time we got there, all the lobster and steak had been eaten, a fight had broken out, the police had been called and all that was left was warm beer and chips.
[/quot
opebo
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 06:18:46 am »
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It  is a bit of a misunderstanding to say that one can 'pay for someone else'.  If you have money beyond subsistence (say in the US anything over 30k-50k/year), you already have a privilege taken from someone else, and certainly all of the vast incomes of the owners are 'paid by someone else' - namely those they control through ownership.
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Senator Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 08:50:18 pm »
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It  is a bit of a misunderstanding to say that one can 'pay for someone else'.  If you have money beyond subsistence (say in the US anything over 30k-50k/year), you already have a privilege taken from someone else, and certainly all of the vast incomes of the owners are 'paid by someone else' - namely those they control through ownership.

Do you believe that you don't have the right to anything beyond a basic living?
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There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

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Senator Griffin (LAB-NB)
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« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 02:11:04 pm »
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It  is a bit of a misunderstanding to say that one can 'pay for someone else'.  If you have money beyond subsistence (say in the US anything over 30k-50k/year), you already have a privilege taken from someone else, and certainly all of the vast incomes of the owners are 'paid by someone else' - namely those they control through ownership.

Do you believe that you don't have the right to anything beyond a basic living?

As opebo said, it's a privilege, not a right. A better question would be: do you believe that everyone has the right to a basic living? When an individual earns or accumulates more than the average individual's salary or net worth, imbalance and inequality are created due to the fact there is now less money available in the economy to provide that basic quality of life to the same number of people. Wealth doesn't grow on trees; while it increases nominally, the increase relative to population increases makes it virtually stagnant.

Modern taxation - specifically progressive taxation - exists to make sure money continues to move around in a capitalist economy without being hoarded by those who can afford to hoard it.

So in summary: No, no one has the right to anything beyond a basic/average living because:

a) there is no way to guarantee that economic right
b) for every person given that economic right, there will be at least one person who will have theirs stripped away
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« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2012, 02:23:02 pm »
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Do you believe that you don't have the right to anything beyond a basic living?

No, I believe that superlative incomes - particularly those derived from ownership, but not only those - are derived from the enslavement of the working class.  The privilege that the upper class receives is in fact control of the majority - the fact that we call it 'income' or 'wealth' is just window-dressing.
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Senator Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 08:04:46 am »
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Do you believe that you don't have the right to anything beyond a basic living?

No, I believe that superlative incomes - particularly those derived from ownership, but not only those - are derived from the enslavement of the working class.  The privilege that the upper class receives is in fact control of the majority - the fact that we call it 'income' or 'wealth' is just window-dressing.
Oh, OK. I though you ere talking about the working class taking from the poor.
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There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 04:58:16 am »
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Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.

Well because paying for a total strangers healthcare or education brings no discernible benefit to the person paying for them. On the other hand, paying to have your trash taken out does benefit the person, or to have someone who is a danger to society executed.
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« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 10:46:20 am »
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Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.

Well because paying for a total strangers healthcare or education brings no discernible benefit to the person paying for them. On the other hand, paying to have your trash taken out does benefit the person, or to have someone who is a danger to society executed.

Laughably incorrect.
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« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 10:50:36 am »
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Ok. I'll be up front. I'm tired of people talking about being forced  to pay for a total stranger's healthcare or education when they are more than happy to pay to have a total stranger killed or destroyed in some other way.

Well because paying for a total strangers healthcare or education brings no discernible benefit to the person paying for them. On the other hand, paying to have your trash taken out does benefit the person, or to have someone who is a danger to society executed.

Please back up your fantasy claims with facts on this issue.

Laughably incorrect.
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Franzl
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« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2012, 10:55:06 am »
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You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?
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BritishDixie
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« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2012, 11:20:46 am »
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You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.
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« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2012, 12:41:07 pm »
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You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

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« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2012, 12:43:25 pm »
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You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.

Witty barbs aside, what I mean is I would rather save some additional money for myself, or spend it on a holiday or a car, than pay for the education, healthcare and benefits of slum-dwelling drug addicts.
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Scottish Robb Stark
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« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2012, 01:12:14 pm »
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You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.

Witty barbs aside, what I mean is I would rather save some additional money for myself, or spend it on a holiday or a car, than pay for the education, healthcare and benefits of slum-dwelling drug addicts.

There is no word that can express my feeling on reading this.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

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« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2012, 01:19:23 pm »
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You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.

Witty barbs aside, what I mean is I would rather save some additional money for myself, or spend it on a holiday or a car, than pay for the education, healthcare and benefits of slum-dwelling drug addicts.

There is no word that can express my feeling on reading this.

I have done the impossible............Silenced a left-winger.....
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Scottish Robb Stark
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« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2012, 01:24:32 pm »
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You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.

Witty barbs aside, what I mean is I would rather save some additional money for myself, or spend it on a holiday or a car, than pay for the education, healthcare and benefits of slum-dwelling drug addicts.

There is no word that can express my feeling on reading this.

I have done the impossible............Silenced a left-winger.....

If this is your goal at life, you can legitimately be proud of yourself.
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Robb of the House Stark, First of his Name, Lord of Winterfell and King in the North



Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
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« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2012, 01:26:10 pm »
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I win! Smiley
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oakvale
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« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2012, 03:00:10 pm »
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You can't figure out why having a well educatedvand healthy society is beneficial in general? Really?

It would be. However this almost never turns out to be the case. Also I would rather keep more of my own money and spend it on what I want, instead of what the state wants.

You as a Sovereign Individual (tm) can't pay for an ordered and peaceful society even if you want to.

Witty barbs aside, what I mean is I would rather save some additional money for myself, or spend it on a holiday or a car, than pay for the education, healthcare and benefits of slum-dwelling drug addicts.

I wonder what it's like experiencing life as an actively awful person.
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Seriously, go die in a ditch, anti-semitic scumbag.
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« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2012, 04:04:06 pm »
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I'd personally be happier to spend money to help provide something like healthcare or education than killing or excluding someone from society. However, defense and criminal justice is an essential function of government, whereas charity is not.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 04:09:41 pm by shua, gm »Logged

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