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Author Topic: Hello Joe!: A President Lieberman Timeline  (Read 2391 times)
Jerseyrules
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« on: May 14, 2012, 09:56:55 pm »
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So, I am going to be starting a new TL, this one based on the synopsis that Clinton picks Lieberman as his running mate after a bitter primary campaign against gore (who resigns his senate seat to focus on his presidential campaign).  Other than that, his time as VP is largely similar to that of Gore's.  He does take a slightly louder opposition to Clinton regarding the Lewinsky scandal, however, during his time as VP and, as you will see, during the campaign.

Vice President Lieberman announces his campaign for the presidency on July 7, 1999.  But he isn't alone.  Because of his delayed announcement, Senator Paul Wellstone announced his candidacy for president on May 2, running largely to the left of Clinton and Lieberman, but also as the heir to Clinton.  For now, he's the crown prince of the progressive movement in the United States.

Senator Wellstone challenges the Vice President to attack him, and throws the first punch:
"The Vice President doesn't know what is best for the American people.  I respect him as man, but he's just George Bush in liberal-colored trappings.  I don't think he's even using the right color dye.  [scattered laughs from the audience].  He doesn't fight for a living wage, he doesn't fight for homosexual or workers' rights, and he sure as hell doesn't fight for the people!  He's in the pocket of corporations and lobbyists.  We need to fight to restore our nation!"


In response to Senator Wellstone, Vice President Lieberman said "I share the passion, but, ultimately, to govern this country, it takes more than passion. It takes experience. It takes positions that reflect the best values of the American people."


Democratic Primary Nationwide Poll:
Joe Lieberman: 52%
Paul Wellstone: 39%



Finally, the Vice President is convinced by his senior advisors (and close friend John McCain, who has abandoned his own campaign in support of Lieberman) to agree to debate Wellstone.

"In this era we live in, the United States - blessed with the world's strongest military, most ingenious economy, and most tolerant society - remains a model and leader to the world.  Now I believe we can build on that, and truly follow that bridge to the twenty-first century.  And finally, we have restored the image of the Democratic party, and now 'liberal' is not a bad word.  We need to win in November, gain seats in both houses of Congress, and restore integrity to the White House in 2000.  I'm running because I'm the best man to do just that."


« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 05:53:57 pm by Jerseyrules »Logged

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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 05:55:36 pm »
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Note: I changed the name, just cuz I thought it would be better.  I'm going to try really hard to get an update before this weekend, but I promise there will be one by Sunday.
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 06:25:05 pm »
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Like it!
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 10:35:05 pm »
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Like it!

Thanks Wink.  I'll try and work in an update tonight.  Hate the way we do tale of two cities; we have a damn quiz every day but we still are behind the other Honors English class.
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 10:41:36 pm »
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"I am running for the Presidency of the United States to restore American honor, values, and tradition to the White House!  We shall make sure that the American people have their voices heard!  They are outraged about the disgraceful misuse of the Oval Office, the smearing of our family values, and the degradation of the highest office in the land.  Well, America, I'm glad to be the man chosen to take us back!  After eight years in the dark, let's bring back the good old Reagan years!"


"Tonight, I am proud to announce that I am running for the Presidency of the United States!  We must return our party from the brink of destruction, and save it from being highjacked by lobbyists and extremist loons!  We must restore a Republican to the White House, but we will only get there with sanity!  We will only get there with a major facelift!  And I believe that I am the best candidate to administer that facelift!"


Fast-forwarding......

Republican Presidential Primary Poll, December 1999:

George W. Bush: 41%
Elizabeth Dole: 21%
Christine Todd Whitman: 14%
Alan Keyes: 7%
Steve Forbes: 3%
Orrin Hatch: 2%

"Tonight I am announcing my candidacy for the Reform Party nomination!  Our party is in serious danger of being highjacked!  We can't afford to have Pat Buchanan representing our party, and I will not allow him to carry our banner next November.  I was reluctant to do this, but Ol' Pat has forced my hand.  I will not sit idly by as the moral majority attempt to take over our party and make it another arm of the GOP.  Ross Perot would not want that.  I do not want that.  sSo after agonizing over this decision for months, I'm in.  Get your Wall Street and CIA buddies, Pat.  You're gonna need 'em."



Reform Party Presidential Primary Poll, December 1999:
Jesse Ventura: 32%
Pat Buchanan: 30%
John Hagelin: 21%]

General Election Polls:

Bush vs. Lieberman vs. Ventura:
Lieberman: 45%
Bush: 45%
Ventura: 10%

Bush vs. Leiberman vs. Buchanan:
Lieberman: 49%
Bush: 46%
Buchanan: 1%

Bush vs. Wellstone vs. Ventura:
Bush: 53%
Wellstone: 39%
Ventura: 4%

Bush vs. Wellstone vs. Buchanan
Bush: 52%
Wellstone: 46%
Buchanan: 3%
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 05:48:13 pm by Jerseyrules »Logged

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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 10:51:24 pm »
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Also, would anyone happen to have any info on the 2000 Reform party primaries?  It's very scarce; all I know is that the Illinois primary was on February 16
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 10:53:22 pm »
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Also, would anyone happen to have any info on the 2000 Reform party primaries?  It's very scarce; all I know is that the Illinois primary was on February 16

I'ma get you a link. I once had a thread on it that I made with the help of some data realisticidealist gave me. Also, since then I've discovered a new source for campaign info that might also help.
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 10:55:51 pm »
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http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=139946.0
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2012, 11:00:39 pm »
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Also, would anyone happen to have any info on the 2000 Reform party primaries?  It's very scarce; all I know is that the Illinois primary was on February 16

I'ma get you a link. I once had a thread on it that I made with the help of some data realisticidealist gave me. Also, since then I've discovered a new source for campaign info that might also help.

Thanks Cathcon. Smiley So you have something in addition to the link?
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2012, 11:05:12 pm »
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Also, would anyone happen to have any info on the 2000 Reform party primaries?  It's very scarce; all I know is that the Illinois primary was on February 16

I'ma get you a link. I once had a thread on it that I made with the help of some data realisticidealist gave me. Also, since then I've discovered a new source for campaign info that might also help.

Thanks Cathcon. Smiley So you have something in addition to the link?

ourcampaigns.com. Sadly, after checking them out, doesn't look like they have a schedule. The site is all about recording the results of every political race imaginiable. Usually this includes individual primaries, but not in the case of something as obscure as the Reform Party primary schedule. (hopefully) "Relevant links" are in the last and most recent post in the thread.

Also, where'd you get the info on the IL primary being on Feb. 16?
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« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2012, 11:10:19 pm »
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Also, would anyone happen to have any info on the 2000 Reform party primaries?  It's very scarce; all I know is that the Illinois primary was on February 16

I'ma get you a link. I once had a thread on it that I made with the help of some data realisticidealist gave me. Also, since then I've discovered a new source for campaign info that might also help.

Thanks Cathcon. Smiley So you have something in addition to the link?

ourcampaigns.com. Sadly, after checking them out, doesn't look like they have a schedule. The site is all about recording the results of every political race imaginiable. Usually this includes individual primaries, but not in the case of something as obscure as the Reform Party primary schedule. (hopefully) "Relevant links" are in the last and most recent post in the thread.

Also, where'd you get the info on the IL primary being on Feb. 16?

I got the primary info from here:

http://www.natural-law.org/news/newsletters/13_mar00/01_reform.html

Turns out it was on February 12, and I got that the Reform Party did in fact have a primary in Iowa, and that Hagelin won it OTL (I'm unsure of how the delegate system works in the RP, because if it was decided solely on the amount of primary victories similar to EV system (the system which both major parties employ) then I can't see how Buchanan would've won the nomination IOTL).

Thanks man Wink
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« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2012, 11:16:19 pm »
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I'm hoping this info can contribute to the Reform Party Primary schedule I attempted to build last fall in that thread I linked you to.

EDIT: Hmmm... "straw poll votes"... Do these count on the primary schedule?
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« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2012, 11:19:24 pm »
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I'm hoping this info can contribute to the Reform Party Primary schedule I attempted to build last fall in that thread I linked you to.

EDIT: Hmmm... "straw poll votes"... Do these count on the primary schedule?

I'm honestly not sure, but I'd assume that they are similar to GOP Iowa Straw Poll, or they are just the Reform Party version of Caucuses, the latter of which makes it much more complicated....
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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2012, 11:22:53 pm »
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Why does Ventura poll better against liberal Wellstone than conservative Lieberman? Lieberman would draw a huge liberal backlash.
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2012, 11:23:24 pm »
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I'm hoping this info can contribute to the Reform Party Primary schedule I attempted to build last fall in that thread I linked you to.

EDIT: Hmmm... "straw poll votes"... Do these count on the primary schedule?

I'm honestly not sure, but I'd assume that they are similar to GOP Iowa Straw Poll, or they are just the Reform Party version of Caucuses, the latter of which makes it much more complicated....

The guy to ask about primary results and whatnot is realisticidealist. In the "Election Results" board above this one, there's a thread dedicated to GOP and Dem primary results and he gave me the link I used to set up my own thread.
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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2012, 11:35:30 pm »
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Compiling all the races we end up with, we have this schedule:

January 24th (?): Iowa/Minnesota Reform Straw Poll (RL winner: Hagelin)

February 12th: Illinois Straw Poll (?) (RL winner: Hagelin)

February 22nd: The Michigan Primary (RL winner: Trump)

March 7th: The California Primary (RL winner: Trump)

                  The Missouri Primary (RL winner: Buchanan)

June 6th: The Montana Primary (RL winner: Uncommitted)

August 11th: The National Mail Ballot (RL winner: Buchanan)
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 05:45:24 pm »
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Hmmm....there doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to the primary outcomes or delegates....  Anyway, thanks Cathcon!
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 05:48:41 pm »
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Why does Ventura poll better against liberal Wellstone than conservative Lieberman? Lieberman would draw a huge liberal backlash.

Fixed Wink.  That's what I'd had in mind, but I did this late at night.
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2012, 09:09:31 pm »
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Medea Benjamin Allowed to Debate!  Green Party Organizers (including one young SF community organizer named Matt Gonzales) Storm the Golden State!  Nader Stops By!

She has made a great impression with the voters of the state (consistently polling above 10%).  Now she's threatening Senator Feinstein's supposedly safe seat.  Could this pose a threat to her?  Some high-profile Democrats have even endorsed Benjamin because of Feinstein's moderate reputation, including Colorado Congresswoman Diana DeGette.  The divide among the left has not gone unnoticed by the Republican in the race, former Congressman Tom Campbell, who now holds a razor-thin (but consistent) lead over the incumbent Senator, who was thought invulnerable just weeks ago.  Can she turn it around in time for the election?  Many analysts caution that there is still lots of time to see what will happen in the race to be California's next Senator.

Dole Wins Iowa!
Dole: 37%
Bush: 36%
Keyes: 23%
Forbes: 3%




Forbes Takes Alaska!

Forbes: 35%
Dole: 33%
Bush: 27%
Keyes: 3%


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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2012, 11:44:16 pm »
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Had Liddy run in 2000 in real life, she would have no doubt made Iowa her firewall, seeing as how her husband won the Iowa Caucus in 1988 with 37% of the vote, and seeing as how she was the  long-time First Lady of a near-neighboring state (Kansas).

Nice job. Looking forward to seeing whether or not Liddy can make hay against Bush outside Iowa and caucus states. Will be interesting because it seems they both have similar bases of support w/in the GOP.

Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

Also, if anyone has any comments, criticisms, nitpicks, or suggestions, they're more than welcome.
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2012, 05:52:28 pm »
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Senator Weld Barnstorms for Whitman in NH!

Lieberman Takes Iowa!

Lieberman: 50%
Wellstone: 49%



There is little doubt that the Wellstone campaign was dealt a major blow by their narrow loss in Iowa.  Senator Wellstone needed to win there to secure crucial momentum, running against an incumbent vice president.  However, it should also be noted that the victory was incredibly narrow, and Vice President Lieberman cannot rest easy.  Senator Wellstone can still win if he performs well in New Hampshire and on Super Tuesday, but he will need to overcome a 2-1 spending gap and a 15% lead in order to take the Live Free or Die State, and the Senator will have his work cut out for him in this race.
- excerpt from the Washington Post
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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2012, 06:08:26 pm »
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I'd see Wellstone with the advantage in Iowa due to his state being neighbors & both being farm states. Lieberman, on the other hand is from New England, so NH should be easier for him. That's my 2 cents anyway. I'd like to see it come down to a Hillary v. O'Bama race, but of course with a Lieberman victory.
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2012, 10:44:33 pm »
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I'd see Wellstone with the advantage in Iowa due to his state being neighbors & both being farm states. Lieberman, on the other hand is from New England, so NH should be easier for him. That's my 2 cents anyway. I'd like to see it come down to a Hillary v. O'Bama race, but of course with a Lieberman victory.

For the first part, I mostly agree, but under the circumstances, it's literally a margin of about 200 votes.  This is after Joe outspent Wellstone by about 20:1, and a last-minute blitzkrieg of attack ads.  But what's this about Obama and Hill?
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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2012, 10:53:31 pm »
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I'd see Wellstone with the advantage in Iowa due to his state being neighbors & both being farm states. Lieberman, on the other hand is from New England, so NH should be easier for him. That's my 2 cents anyway. I'd like to see it come down to a Hillary v. O'Bama race, but of course with a Lieberman victory.

For the first part, I mostly agree, but under the circumstances, it's literally a margin of about 200 votes.  This is after Joe outspent Wellstone by about 20:1, and a last-minute blitzkrieg of attack ads.  But what's this about Obama and Hill?

He desires a neck-and-neck campaign that will go through all 50 states, with Lieberman winning the pledged delegates narrowly.
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2012, 11:41:54 pm »
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I'd see Wellstone with the advantage in Iowa due to his state being neighbors & both being farm states. Lieberman, on the other hand is from New England, so NH should be easier for him. That's my 2 cents anyway. I'd like to see it come down to a Hillary v. O'Bama race, but of course with a Lieberman victory.

For the first part, I mostly agree, but under the circumstances, it's literally a margin of about 200 votes.  This is after Joe outspent Wellstone by about 20:1, and a last-minute blitzkrieg of attack ads.  But what's this about Obama and Hill?

He desires a neck-and-neck campaign that will go through all 50 states, with Lieberman winning the pledged delegates narrowly.

Oh.  Thanks for clarifying that Wink

Yeah, it's going to come pretty down-to-the-wire on both sides, and definitely in the general Wink
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Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)
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