Rank the heads of government of the following countries since you were born
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 18, 2024, 09:14:10 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Individual Politics (Moderator: The Dowager Mod)
  Rank the heads of government of the following countries since you were born
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: Rank the heads of government of the following countries since you were born  (Read 5218 times)
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,398
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2012, 06:10:41 PM »

I obviously didn't mean to insult you. I think that, even though you're actually more French than I am, it's not the same to follow french politics from another country or to hear the political news every day. I don't follow italian politics as much as a resident italian would if he were as interested in politics as I am. That doesn't make me an ignorant in italian politics. I don't see what's insulting.

I'm pretty piss-poor at reading comments over the internet, but I understand you better now. I interpreted your comment in a more insulting or derogatory manner, in the typical style of "I LIVE HERE U DON'T U KAN'T SPEAK ABUT MY KUNTRY!111".

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course Sarkozy is a moron. Of course I don't like him. I'd quicker vote for a teddy bear than Sarkozy, and the mere fact that I'll probably actually bothering voting for Hollande over Sarkozy on May 6 (unless Hollande pisses me off, which is still likely, but whatevsky) should tell you more than enough about my opinions towards Sarkozy. And despite the fact that his brand of xenophobic national-populism is terrible and despite the fact that his taxation policy is horrible, I still think that he was at least somewhat committed to reforms and changes which are necessary for France (and which Hollande will probably be forced to do, in a particularly unpleasant wake up call for all involved, even though right now he's in the good' ole Guy Mollet mode) on stuff like labour relations, retirement and competitiveness -- and this is perhaps why I view Sarkozy as preferable to Chirac even if Sarkozy is a still a terrible human being whose government's negatives far outweigh the negatives. I know that we've agreed to disagree on those points, but I reiterate my point that my views on economic and social welfare issues pertaining to France are significantly to the right of the PS and of your personal views.

I don't feel like detailing my views on Mitt'rrand, because it's not something I feel strongly about and which is not my top priority right now (a 8.5 CGPA is my sole priority). But, yeah, he did good but he did good despite himself. 1981-83 was a disaster, the Fabius austerity was another disaster, post-1991 was an unmitigated disaster, the government was as corrupt as the PLQ, and the man in question was an horrible human being. But I digress. I don't really care that much about whether or not Sarko is better than Mitt'rrand, he probably isn't but there's a chance he probably is but after all, I don't give a sh**t. All that I know is that all French Presidents since 1969 have been horrible, and this trend will continue into the near future.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,890
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2012, 07:53:46 PM »

I'm pretty piss-poor at reading comments over the internet, but I understand you better now. I interpreted your comment in a more insulting or derogatory manner, in the typical style of "I LIVE HERE U DON'T U KAN'T SPEAK ABUT MY KUNTRY!111".

I wouldn't tell that to you of all people. Tongue


Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

We can agree to disagree, of course. Especially if you have tons of work (believe me, I have come to reconsider the notion of "being overwhelmed by work" in the past week). Tongue Still, I have to restate that Sarko's "reforms" have been far from what you'd consider to be the sound and necessary reforms any government should do. It's not like they have gone that far after all (what does Sarko's super duper ultra-necessary pensions reform do ? It fixes the problem for barely a decade. What will we do at this point, raise the retirement age again ?), they have just made the country more unfair. They obviously haven't fixed the budget, as a quick look at numbers do. Really, I don't see how the majority (I understand you'd agree on one or two) of Sarko's reform could be considered as a step in the right direction by anyone except a neoliberal.

As for Mitterrand, well, of course there are lots of things to blame. But I think an overwhelming majority of laws passed have been good on balance. And it's not like they've crippled the deficit more than the right has. Regarding economic performance, I think it's fairly easy to compare Mitterrand and Sarko : both had sh*tty economic performances which weren't entirely their fault (remember the 1980s crisis was a pretty tough one and hurt the entire West). Regarding corruption, the right was hardly more honest. I don't say this to justify, but it simply means it's a general characteristic of the 1980s-1990s and not something you can blame solely on Mitterrand. And precisely, Bérégovoy's campaign finance reform is one of the main reasons why corruption has significantly diminished in the latter years IMO.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,398
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2012, 06:51:18 AM »

We can agree to disagree, of course. Especially if you have tons of work (believe me, I have come to reconsider the notion of "being overwhelmed by work" in the past week). Tongue Still, I have to restate that Sarko's "reforms" have been far from what you'd consider to be the sound and necessary reforms any government should do. It's not like they have gone that far after all (what does Sarko's super duper ultra-necessary pensions reform do ? It fixes the problem for barely a decade. What will we do at this point, raise the retirement age again ?), they have just made the country more unfair. They obviously haven't fixed the budget, as a quick look at numbers do. Really, I don't see how the majority (I understand you'd agree on one or two) of Sarko's reform could be considered as a step in the right direction by anyone except a neoliberal.

Don't ask me why I care enough about this trite debate to answer... but what gives. Yeah, I know a lot of his reforms have sucked. Yeah, the retirement age will need to be raised again. Every other country has it at 65, and the way the world is going with deficits and debts, that is where it's gonna go in France, sooner or later. I wish the left would stop its stupid demagogy on the issue, but I don't really care. Stuff like labour advantages/regimes speciaux needed to be changed. Some of the 'necessary' reforms are unfair, but the world sucks. We'll agree to disagree, and while you should realize that I hate Sarkozy - and again, I'll vote for Hollande over him - I'm not a member of the Sarkozy-is-the-Antichrist club. I have a hard time convincing people of my ideas, but people have a hard time convincing me of theirs.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I won't deny that Mitt'rrand didn't bankrupt the country, though his entire 1981-1983 policy played a significant role in worsening the crisis and was by all accounts a terrible policy which only an idiot with his head in the sand could have implemented at that point. As for corruption, your argument might have shut me up if I was a right-winger, but I still don't think I'm a right-winger. All French parties are corrupt. I hate them all for it.
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,207
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2012, 07:08:53 AM »

You will eventually need a separate higher retirement age for penpushers. All countries will. It won't be popular with anybody easily capable of getting his opinions into print, and it's going to be very difficult to get the details of who's available for what right, but the need from both a practical and a fairness perspective is clear as day really.
Or else the state will just pay a uniform tax-financed pension to everybody and the rich are perfectly free to supplement it with private pensions that are not treated any different taxwise than any other income. That is the alternative really.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,890
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2012, 08:53:30 AM »

I quite like discussing about policies, and I think I have a couple convincing arguments left as to why Sarko's reforms are regressive, ideological and only making problems worse. But I have no problem agreeing to disagree, if you prefer.
Logged
TNF
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,440


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2012, 07:11:21 AM »

United States:
-- Barack Obama
-- George H.W. Bush
-- Bill Clinton
-- George W. Bush

United Kingdom:
-- Tony Blair
-- John Major
-- David Cameron
-- Gordon Brown

France:
-- Francois Miterrand
-- Nicholas Sarkozy
-- Jacques Chirac

Australia:
-- Paul Keating
-- Kevin Rudd
-- Julia Gillard
-- Bob Hawke
-- John Howard

Canada:
-- Paul Martin
-- Jean Chrieten
-- Kim Campbell
-- Brian Mulroney
-- Stephen Harper

Germany:
-- Helmut Kohl
-- Gerhard Schroder
-- Angela Merkel

Russia:
-- Dmitri Medvedev
-- Mikhail Gorbachev
-- Boris Yeltsin
-- Vladimir Putin
Logged
frihetsivrare
Volksliberalist
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 613


Political Matrix
E: 4.00, S: -7.13

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2012, 03:43:29 PM »

Russia/USSR
Vladimir Putin
Dmitry Medvedev
Mikhail Gorbechev
Boris Yeltsin

Canada
Jean Crieten
Paul Martin
Stephen Harper
Kim Campbell
Brian Mulroney

United Kingdom
John Major
David Cameron
Tony Blair
Gordon Brown

Adding Argentina
Nestor Kirchner
Eduardo Duhalde
Christina Fernandez de Kirchner
Carlos Menem
Fernando de la Rua
I am not counting Adolfo Rodriguez Saa because he was only president for a week.

Australia only including economic policy
John Howard
Bob Hawke
Kevin Rudd
Paul Keating
Julia Gillard
Logged
Supersonic
SupersonicVenue
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,162
United Kingdom


Political Matrix
E: 4.90, S: 0.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2012, 06:07:01 PM »

USA:
Bill Clinton
George H.W. Bush
Barack Obama
George W. Bush

UK:
John Major
David Cameron
Tony Blair
Gordon Brown

France:
Nicolas Sarkozy
Jacques Chirac
François Mitterand

Australia:
John Howard
Kevin Rudd
Paul Keating
Julia Gillard

Canada:
Stephen Harper
Brian Mulroney
Jean Chretien
Paul Martin
Kim Campbell

Germany:
Angela Merkel
Helmut Kohl
Gerhard Schroeder
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.229 seconds with 12 queries.