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President John Hay
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« Reply #100 on: May 22, 2012, 05:29:40 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...
I'm talking more of the methods and side beliefs- such as disruptive "mic checks", the radical anti-Americanism, etc... there is social inequality- every one believes that...but these people give me memories of those in the 60s who simply hated authority
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k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
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« Reply #101 on: May 22, 2012, 05:31:42 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...
I'm talking more of the methods and side beliefs- such as disruptive "mic checks", the radical anti-Americanism, etc... there is social inequality- every one believes that...but these people give me memories of those in the 60s who simply hated authority

Except they have an aim. I see both Occupy and the Tea Party as only addressing one side of the problem, for the record - the government and corporate elite are so entwined that they should both be the subject of these protests.
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President John Hay
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« Reply #102 on: May 22, 2012, 05:31:51 pm »
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So you're trying to say I'm not black enough? That's a first! But forget about me. Read the rest of my post.
Simfan- I dont know who said or implied that...but to do so is insulting to you. I am sorry some one here would be rude- or RACIST enough- to imply that your views make you less of a black man then a liberal
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Governor Varavour
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« Reply #103 on: May 22, 2012, 05:32:13 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...

There is nothing nonsensical about hard work. What we have here is ridicule of those that defy the zeitgeist- not so much about what he does but what he says, the refusal to join in the whinging. Society today is all talk and no action, and we see him lambasted for his words and his action.
So you're trying to say I'm not black enough? That's a first! But forget about me. Read the rest of my post.
Simfan- I dont know who said or implied that...but to do so is insulting to you. I am sorry some one here would be rude- or RACIST enough- to imply that your views make you less of a black man then a liberal

I was going to say I was being hyperbolic but Marokai and Windis' posts certainly crossed a line...
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 05:33:58 pm by Severe Simfan34 »Logged

k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
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« Reply #104 on: May 22, 2012, 05:34:50 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...

There is nothing nonsensical about hard work. What we have here is ridicule of those that defy the zeitgeist- not so much about what he does but what he says, the refusal to join in the whinging. Society today is all talk and no action, and we see him lambasted for his words and his action.

You're mixing things up here. We all respect those who work hard. What we don't respect is those who proceed to attention whore and pour hatred on those who are less fortunate, as this whole movement seems to be aiming at. If you have a job, great, you're lucky. Just remember, you're a resource that they can do away with at any point they like.
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President John Hay
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« Reply #105 on: May 22, 2012, 05:35:07 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...
I'm talking more of the methods and side beliefs- such as disruptive "mic checks", the radical anti-Americanism, etc... there is social inequality- every one believes that...but these people give me memories of those in the 60s who simply hated authority

Except they have an aim. I see both Occupy and the Tea Party as only addressing one side of the problem, for the record - the government and corporate elite are so entwined that they should both be the subject of these protests.
I think that's a fair statement and I agree... I simply find Occupy to be disgusting. It sounds anecdotal but compare a park after a Tea Party protest and a square after an Occupy protest...the former is clean and you couldn't tell any one was there- the other is trashed
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ozona and sonora
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« Reply #106 on: May 22, 2012, 05:36:03 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding
implying i'm a 'liberal' is pretty hilarious
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
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« Reply #107 on: May 22, 2012, 05:36:50 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...
I'm talking more of the methods and side beliefs- such as disruptive "mic checks", the radical anti-Americanism, etc... there is social inequality- every one believes that...but these people give me memories of those in the 60s who simply hated authority

Except they have an aim. I see both Occupy and the Tea Party as only addressing one side of the problem, for the record - the government and corporate elite are so entwined that they should both be the subject of these protests.
I think that's a fair statement and I agree... I simply find Occupy to be disgusting. It sounds anecdotal but compare a park after a Tea Party protest and a square after an Occupy protest...the former is clean and you couldn't tell any one was there- the other is trashed

On the other hand, the Tea Party have engaged in racism, bizarro conspiracy theories and other such activities... not a group you want to defend in particular.
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President John Hay
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« Reply #108 on: May 22, 2012, 05:37:01 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...

There is nothing nonsensical about hard work. What we have here is ridicule of those that defy the zeitgeist- not so much about what he does but what he says, the refusal to join in the whinging. Society today is all talk and no action, and we see him lambasted for his words and his action.

You're mixing things up here. We all respect those who work hard. What we don't respect is those who proceed to attention whore and pour hatred on those who are less fortunate, as this whole movement seems to be aiming at. If you have a job, great, you're lucky. Just remember, you're a resource that they can do away with at any point they like.
Yes you are- you are a human resource. That's the way it works...they pay you and they can choose to stop paying you. I've let go many an employee for  malfeasance, negligence, intoxication on the job, criminal records, etc...
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President John Hay
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« Reply #109 on: May 22, 2012, 05:37:51 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding
implying i'm a 'liberal' is pretty hilarious
Well then I expand my statement to you include you and frankly I find it even more surprising that a conservative would bash a fella for working his butt off and being proud of it
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k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
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« Reply #110 on: May 22, 2012, 05:39:49 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...

There is nothing nonsensical about hard work. What we have here is ridicule of those that defy the zeitgeist- not so much about what he does but what he says, the refusal to join in the whinging. Society today is all talk and no action, and we see him lambasted for his words and his action.

You're mixing things up here. We all respect those who work hard. What we don't respect is those who proceed to attention whore and pour hatred on those who are less fortunate, as this whole movement seems to be aiming at. If you have a job, great, you're lucky. Just remember, you're a resource that they can do away with at any point they like.
Yes you are- you are a human resource. That's the way it works...they pay you and they can choose to stop paying you. I've let go many an employee for  malfeasance, negligence, intoxication on the job, criminal records, etc...

You can work hard all yr life and then have the company let you go in favour of outsourcing all the jobs to the Third World. The current system owes no loyalty to humanity or nationality - corporatism is utterly psychotic and it needs to be ended, before it leads to a race to the bottom for wages, as it already has begun to since the 1980s...
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ozona and sonora
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« Reply #111 on: May 22, 2012, 05:49:59 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...

There is nothing nonsensical about hard work. What we have here is ridicule of those that defy the zeitgeist- not so much about what he does but what he says, the refusal to join in the whinging. Society today is all talk and no action, and we see him lambasted for his words and his action.

You're mixing things up here. We all respect those who work hard. What we don't respect is those who proceed to attention whore and pour hatred on those who are less fortunate, as this whole movement seems to be aiming at. If you have a job, great, you're lucky. Just remember, you're a resource that they can do away with at any point they like.
Yes you are- you are a human resource. That's the way it works...they pay you and they can choose to stop paying you. I've let go many an employee for  malfeasance, negligence, intoxication on the job, criminal records, etc...
maybe people don't want everything to be commodified. maybe certain things like the family have intrinsic value and should be protected by the state or nation/tribe/community. you obviously did not read my previous posts though which already explained my problem obviously had nothing to do with this person's alleged work ethic and everything to do with his apologism for a system that is literally robbing us and destroying anything of lasting value within our culture.

oh and btw i have made it clear before i don't like occupy, if it was actually directed against the criminal banks i would support it but it clearly is not. just like the tea party was/is clearly not about 'fiscal responsibility.'
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
President John Hay
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« Reply #112 on: May 22, 2012, 05:55:59 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...

There is nothing nonsensical about hard work. What we have here is ridicule of those that defy the zeitgeist- not so much about what he does but what he says, the refusal to join in the whinging. Society today is all talk and no action, and we see him lambasted for his words and his action.

You're mixing things up here. We all respect those who work hard. What we don't respect is those who proceed to attention whore and pour hatred on those who are less fortunate, as this whole movement seems to be aiming at. If you have a job, great, you're lucky. Just remember, you're a resource that they can do away with at any point they like.
Yes you are- you are a human resource. That's the way it works...they pay you and they can choose to stop paying you. I've let go many an employee for  malfeasance, negligence, intoxication on the job, criminal records, etc...
maybe people don't want everything to be commodified. maybe certain things like the family have intrinsic value and should be protected by the state or nation/tribe/community. you obviously did not read my previous posts though which already explained my problem obviously had nothing to do with this person's alleged work ethic and everything to do with his apologism for a system that is literally robbing us and destroying anything of lasting value within our culture.

oh and btw i have made it clear before i don't like occupy, if it was actually directed against the criminal banks i would support it but it clearly is not. just like the tea party was/is clearly not about 'fiscal responsibility.'
Fair enough- and I agree that the family ought to be protected...and I agree with WinDis that people ought to be respected more and if that requires laws to be passed to do so...that is an improtant discussion to have
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ozona and sonora
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« Reply #113 on: May 22, 2012, 05:57:43 pm »
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sorry if that comes off as self righteous
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
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« Reply #114 on: May 22, 2012, 06:04:39 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...

There is nothing nonsensical about hard work. What we have here is ridicule of those that defy the zeitgeist- not so much about what he does but what he says, the refusal to join in the whinging. Society today is all talk and no action, and we see him lambasted for his words and his action.

You're mixing things up here. We all respect those who work hard. What we don't respect is those who proceed to attention whore and pour hatred on those who are less fortunate, as this whole movement seems to be aiming at. If you have a job, great, you're lucky. Just remember, you're a resource that they can do away with at any point they like.
Yes you are- you are a human resource. That's the way it works...they pay you and they can choose to stop paying you. I've let go many an employee for  malfeasance, negligence, intoxication on the job, criminal records, etc...
maybe people don't want everything to be commodified. maybe certain things like the family have intrinsic value and should be protected by the state or nation/tribe/community. you obviously did not read my previous posts though which already explained my problem obviously had nothing to do with this person's alleged work ethic and everything to do with his apologism for a system that is literally robbing us and destroying anything of lasting value within our culture.

oh and btw i have made it clear before i don't like occupy, if it was actually directed against the criminal banks i would support it but it clearly is not. just like the tea party was/is clearly not about 'fiscal responsibility.'
Fair enough- and I agree that the family ought to be protected...and I agree with WinDis that people ought to be respected more and if that requires laws to be passed to do so...that is an improtant discussion to have

For conservatives, I suppose, the important conflict is between their duties to the capitalist hierachy/order and their duties to tradition/family etc... my own belief (as a non-conservative with some sympathy for certain tenets of it, nonetheless) tends towards the monopolization and commodity fetishization of everything as being one of the worst culprits in what social conservatives would call "moral degradation"
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Governor Varavour
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« Reply #115 on: May 22, 2012, 06:33:17 pm »
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It is astounding to me how liberals can bash this person because he or she chooses not to identify with the radical Occupy protests... this is a person putting himself thru school doing the best he can for himself. He is making every right decision but because he ignores the talking points of a leftist group- you all disregard him

Truly astounding

No-one is disregarding him, we just know he's talking nonsense.

Also, if the belief that social inequality is unjust is now "radical" then I despair for our society...

There is nothing nonsensical about hard work. What we have here is ridicule of those that defy the zeitgeist- not so much about what he does but what he says, the refusal to join in the whinging. Society today is all talk and no action, and we see him lambasted for his words and his action.

You're mixing things up here. We all respect those who work hard. What we don't respect is those who proceed to attention whore and pour hatred on those who are less fortunate, as this whole movement seems to be aiming at. If you have a job, great, you're lucky. Just remember, you're a resource that they can do away with at any point they like.
Yes you are- you are a human resource. That's the way it works...they pay you and they can choose to stop paying you. I've let go many an employee for  malfeasance, negligence, intoxication on the job, criminal records, etc...
maybe people don't want everything to be commodified. maybe certain things like the family have intrinsic value and should be protected by the state or nation/tribe/community. you obviously did not read my previous posts though which already explained my problem obviously had nothing to do with this person's alleged work ethic and everything to do with his apologism for a system that is literally robbing us and destroying anything of lasting value within our culture.

oh and btw i have made it clear before i don't like occupy, if it was actually directed against the criminal banks i would support it but it clearly is not. just like the tea party was/is clearly not about 'fiscal responsibility.'
Fair enough- and I agree that the family ought to be protected...and I agree with WinDis that people ought to be respected more and if that requires laws to be passed to do so...that is an improtant discussion to have

For conservatives, I suppose, the important conflict is between their duties to the capitalist hierachy/order and their duties to tradition/family etc... my own belief (as a non-conservative with some sympathy for certain tenets of it, nonetheless) tends towards the monopolization and commodity fetishization of everything as being one of the worst culprits in what social conservatives would call "moral degradation"

I strongly agree with this.
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ozona and sonora
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« Reply #116 on: May 22, 2012, 06:57:05 pm »
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i should point out i'm not blaming 'capitalism' entirely for this. if anything i agree with a lot of the (relatively) mainstream right-wing criticism of the us government encouraging the worst excesses of the banks, and the modern welfare state producing a lot of perverse incentives. i suspect a lot of our problems would be diminished if the government governed according to basic microeconomics.

however i think its a bad idea to view people in entirely econocentric terms. if that sort of thinking doesn't work under marxist systems it won't work under 'capitalism' either. people are not 100% rational. they are not all equal in ability. they do not all have the same wants. they are not merely your workers. they do not conform to neat little models. ironically for all people tend to criticize them for being 'free market fundamentalists' libertarians tend to at least understand that much, along side the other elements on 'the fringes.'
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 07:01:23 pm by king of jeans »Logged


That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
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« Reply #117 on: May 22, 2012, 07:03:39 pm »
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i should point out i'm not blaming 'capitalism' entirely for this. if anything i agree with a lot of the (relatively) mainstream right-wing criticism of the us government encouraging the worst excesses of the banks, and the modern welfare state producing a lot of perverse incentives. i suspect a lot of our problems would be diminished if the government governed according to basic microeconomics.

however i think its a bad idea to view people in entirely econocentric terms. if that sort of thinking doesn't work under marxist systems it won't work under 'capitalism' either. people are not rational. they are not all equal. they do not all have the same wants. they do not conform to neat little models. they are not merely your workers. ironically for all people tend to criticize them for being 'free market fundamentalists' libertarians tend to at least understand that much, along side the other elements on 'the fringes.'

The main problem I have with yr. argument (as much as we agree, which should be bizarre given that we supposedly lie on opposite sides of the political spectrum) is the acceptance of all inequality however. I still hold, as most would, that equality under the law is a key tenet of any modern society and I also believe that social/class inequalities are responsible for much of the social conflict in "free market" countries. The problem then, of course, is the difficulties in making a "one size fits all" model for tackling social inequality, given that it only seems to work ideally in monocultural nations such as Sweden...
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ozona and sonora
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« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2012, 07:11:45 pm »
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true equality is undesirable and impossible because of our natural differences in talents and preferences. it is also clearly a subjective concept that can not be  measured totally objectively. that obviously does not mean that i disagree with the modern consensus of providing the poor with access to say, public/subsidized healthcare and education and the ideal of equal treatment under the law. just that i think it is potentially tyrannical not to mention destructive to the majority to attempt to impose 'equality' beyond those levels. even under the things i mentioned there exist differences in coverage and quality in all of the developed world.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 07:13:23 pm by king of jeans »Logged


That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
k-onmmunist
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« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2012, 07:14:23 pm »
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true equality is undesirable and impossible because of our natural differences in talents and preferences. it is also clearly a totally subjective concept that can not be totally measured objectively. that obviously does not mean that i disagree with the modern consensus of providing the poor with access to say, public/subsidized healthcare and education and the ideal of equal treatment under the law. just that i think it is potentially tyrannical not to mention destructive to the majority to attempt to impose 'equality' beyond those bare minimum levels.

I don't believe in "true equality" either... I don't think many people do. But everyone is equal in some terms, as even Hobbes pointed out, because everyone has the potential to kill another person (personally, through machinations/conspiracy with others etc.). What I'm saying is, the lesser the gap between the top and bottom of society the better, because a highly hierachial order inevitably breeds conflict.
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ozona and sonora
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« Reply #120 on: May 22, 2012, 07:43:05 pm »
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if that is not the goal then why the endless pursuit and use of it rhetorically by the left? (well a lot of the 'right' too...) anyway wormy already posted something pretty good awhile back about how savings affects the income inequality rate and why that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
ozona and sonora
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« Reply #121 on: May 22, 2012, 07:43:38 pm »
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and that's about it for tonight unfortunately. i need to go study some more, this break has gone on long enough.
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
k-onmmunist
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« Reply #122 on: May 23, 2012, 03:41:13 am »
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if that is not the goal then why the endless pursuit and use of it rhetorically by the left? (well a lot of the 'right' too...) anyway wormy already posted something pretty good awhile back about how savings affects the income inequality rate and why that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

My aim here, like I said, would not be full equality, but to narrow the gap as far as is possible.
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« Reply #123 on: May 23, 2012, 03:53:51 am »
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So let me remind all serious people out there, the problem with the OP is not he is a hard-worker but that he boasts of being in the 1% and implies that those that aren't are lazy. He is a moral wazzle. And pretty typical of the self-proclaimed wealth creator class.
I don't think the kid was trying to say he/she was part of the 1%.  The way I read it was that he/she was not part of the "99%".

Maybe so, but is that something worth boasting about? Something worth developing a sense of superiority on?

I don't think that's a charitable interpretation of the sign. I would interpret it as saying "I'm not part of the OWS movement and do not share their ideals" which here is short-handed as saying "I'm not the 99%"

You're assuming that the person is using 99% the way the OWS movement does (i.e. the bottom 99% of the wealth distribution). Given the context I doubt that.

The "...and whether or not you are is YOUR decision" suggests otherwise. Of course it's your decision whether or not you take part to OWS, but it is so obvious that it wouldn't be worth saying. Rather, it seems to imply that the poor are poor because of their own laziness.

Well, ok it probably means something like "the angry college students with debt who make up a large part of the OWS movement" then. Tongue
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« Reply #124 on: May 23, 2012, 03:57:49 am »
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So let me remind all serious people out there, the problem with the OP is not he is a hard-worker but that he boasts of being in the 1% and implies that those that aren't are lazy. He is a moral wazzle. And pretty typical of the self-proclaimed wealth creator class.
I don't think the kid was trying to say he/she was part of the 1%.  The way I read it was that he/she was not part of the "99%".

Maybe so, but is that something worth boasting about? Something worth developing a sense of superiority on?

I don't think that's a charitable interpretation of the sign. I would interpret it as saying "I'm not part of the OWS movement and do not share their ideals" which here is short-handed as saying "I'm not the 99%"

You're assuming that the person is using 99% the way the OWS movement does (i.e. the bottom 99% of the wealth distribution). Given the context I doubt that.

I'm not assuming anything except from the tone which his message exudes excludes him from any other personal social rating of mine other than "clearly a douche". After all, why go to all this effort to make such a laboured and uninteresting point?

As for growing up, I tried that once and I thought it was overrated.

As is pointed out in this thread, the style of the note mimicks a style employed by the OWS people. Which is why it ends the way it does as well. So I think you're reading too much into it.

Maybe you need to try, just a little bit harder.
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