SENATE BILL: Pregnant Women Support Act (Law'd)
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  SENATE BILL: Pregnant Women Support Act (Law'd)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Pregnant Women Support Act (Law'd)  (Read 8491 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: May 18, 2012, 07:03:36 PM »
« edited: June 27, 2012, 08:47:11 PM by Senator North Carolina Yankee »

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Sponsor: Clarence
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2012, 07:10:38 PM »

Uh-oh, Clarence is gone, and my 24 hour rule is in place.

Did he post a Leave of Absence other than his post in his campaign thread? Should I count that for these purposes (I doubt they would hold up with regards to the activity requirement for the Senate for instance.)
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CLARENCE 2015!
clarence
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2012, 02:47:50 PM »

I'm back...
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2012, 07:34:44 PM »

If I see a post advocating for this by tomorrow, I will decline to notice that time expire thirty minutes ago. Grin
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clarence
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 10:22:33 AM »

Senators- this legislation is not designed to ban abortion but to provide altrnatives...helping women thru a difficult pregnancy both financially and moral support. It connects women with support centers and adoption centers.
I believe the clauses are fairly straightforward and would welcome any questions and comments
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Frodo
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2012, 10:36:03 AM »

This bill has my full support, for what it's worth. 
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2012, 01:31:56 PM »

I'm a bit worried about the provisions in 2 being a form of indirect coercion; for example, it is unclear in 2b1 what "characteristics" would be mentioned here.  3 is also a bit odd.  Otherwise, most of this seems just fine; it would be nice to see a more-explicit endorsement of and/or support for genetic counseling in 7, which will undoubtedly be helpful as we are able to diagnose more and more things before birth (and, even more critically for the job of a genetic counselor, know that people are at higher risks for certain things, which is where it starts getting confusing).
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2012, 02:13:34 PM »

I like the intentions of this bill, but my only concern is that certain pregnancy centers, including federally funded ones, have been known to spread misinformation and use scare tactics when counseling women.  How would we ensure that women and tax dollars are only going to health care centers that provide accurate and honest information?
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2012, 07:17:47 PM »

I echo Scott's concerns, especially in regards to 2(b), which I feel could get very slanted, depending on where the medical facility is located.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2012, 07:25:10 PM »

This bill is a disaster and I hope you all have the courage to defeat it.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2012, 07:28:45 PM »

This bill is a disaster and I hope you all have the courage to defeat it.

How so?  Which section do you not like?
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Napoleon
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2012, 07:33:50 PM »

This bill is a disaster and I hope you all have the courage to defeat it.

How so?  Which section do you not like?

The part where the government tries to force women into anti-abortion propaganda counseling.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2012, 07:38:59 PM »

I support the intent behind this Bill... but I equally agree with Governor Napoleon on this that the mechanics are a disaster waiting to happen.

In my Budget proposal, which I hope will find a Senate sponsor, I've increased support for both adoption and foster services.

I do have deep concerns about the need to 'inform' women, as if they are unaware that adoption and other support services exist. I don't object to some degree of information being available about the nature of services available, but I do object to this being used as some sort of thinly veiled pro-life campaign.

Services like this exist or have existed in other countries, and have had little impact besides causing further emotional distress for women at a very difficult time. Section two in particular seems deliberately designed to instill tremendous guilt in women. Again suggesting that women don't really 'understand' what they're doing.

Another element that deeply concerns me are sections 6 and 8, the purchasing of ultrasound equipment seems to have only one purpose, and section 8 seems to be about giving funds to pro-life organisations.

I'm happy to support measures to ensure people who wish to adopt and women who wish to put their baby up for adoption have the means to do so. I want women to have support for whatever decision they make. However, it's not the state's role to force a particular decision on them.

I won't sign a Bill that will create the mechanisms this Bill seeks to create.
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Sbane
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2012, 07:41:54 PM »

This bill is a disaster and I hope you all have the courage to defeat it.

How so?  Which section do you not like?

The part where the government tries to force women into anti-abortion propaganda counseling.

I agree with this, though this bill has good parts as well. Do hopefully we will pass an amended version of this bill.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2012, 07:42:39 PM »

This bill is a disaster and I hope you all have the courage to defeat it.

How so?  Which section do you not like?

The part where the government tries to force women into anti-abortion propaganda counseling.

I agree with this, though this bill has good parts as well. Do hopefully we will pass an amended version of this bill.

I doubt the sponsor will be happy with removing what will need to be to make this palatable.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2012, 07:50:02 PM »

Thank you Napoleon and Mr. President.  What you've said does impact my views on this bill.

I will not support this law if it gives money to pro-life organizations or any health care center that uses lies, scare tactics, or guilt as a way of convincing women not to have abortions.
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clarence
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2012, 07:52:30 PM »

This bill is a disaster and I hope you all have the courage to defeat it.
As usual- you sure do show the poise that can bring people together ;-)

For those of you who- unlike Napoleon- had constructive comments...I see and understand your concerns...I will be proposing an amendment tonite to hopefully address most of them
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Napoleon
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2012, 07:54:06 PM »

This bill is a disaster and I hope you all have the courage to defeat it.
As usual- you sure do show the poise that can bring people together ;-)

The word "all" suggests bringing everyone together, true?

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Don't be mad that I actually read through these right-wing bills you keep proposing before forming my opinion.
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clarence
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2012, 07:58:29 PM »




The word "all" suggests bringing everyone together, true?
If by every one you mean those on the left- sure you have attempted to bring them together by- for example- coercing an entire party to back you... but that's for another time

Rather then see value in certain parts of the bill- which others did and which I have aimed to do with every bill- you label the entire bill a "disaster" with no attempt to find common ground or work together... you are the equivalent in Atlasia of the Tea Party in your lack of willingness to compromise and abrasive attitude...your politics may not be extreme (I'm no expert on your views) but your tactics certainly are
Polnut- despite my disagreements with him- has brought people together and acted in a way a leader should... with dignity and respect for opposing views. I wish your attitude would match your intelligence pal
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benconstine
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2012, 08:04:42 PM »

Clarence, can you answer the concerns that Scott, myself, and others have about Section 2?  At the moment, I cannot support this legislation.
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clarence
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2012, 08:07:36 PM »

Clarence, can you answer the concerns that Scott, myself, and others have about Section 2?  At the moment, I cannot support this legislation.
Absolutely- as mentioned working on an amendment which I believe addresses those concerns...
In general- I would not propose putting federal funding into any clinic or institution which will lie to women or pressure, coerce, or shame them. 2b1 is- on second thought- meant for that purpose and I will delete that in my amendment
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2012, 08:11:39 PM »

This bill is a disaster and I hope you all have the courage to defeat it.

How so?  Which section do you not like?

The part where the government tries to force women into anti-abortion propaganda counseling.

I agree with this, though this bill has good parts as well. Do hopefully we will pass an amended version of this bill.

I doubt the sponsor will be happy with removing what will need to be to make this palatable.

Isn't that dependent more upon what makes any six Senators happy, rather than the sponsor? Tongue
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2012, 08:12:16 PM »

This bill is a disaster and I hope you all have the courage to defeat it.

How so?  Which section do you not like?

The part where the government tries to force women into anti-abortion propaganda counseling.

I agree with this, though this bill has good parts as well. Do hopefully we will pass an amended version of this bill.

I doubt the sponsor will be happy with removing what will need to be to make this palatable.

Isn't that dependent more upon what makes any six Senators happy, rather than the sponsor? Tongue

You know what I mean Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2012, 08:14:30 PM »

This bill is a disaster and I hope you all have the courage to defeat it.

How so?  Which section do you not like?

The part where the government tries to force women into anti-abortion propaganda counseling.

I agree with this, though this bill has good parts as well. Do hopefully we will pass an amended version of this bill.

I doubt the sponsor will be happy with removing what will need to be to make this palatable.

Isn't that dependent more upon what makes any six Senators happy, rather than the sponsor? Tongue

You know what I mean Tongue

I just don't like seeing bills get trashcanned, especially when they have already blown through two pages. If a palatable version exists, then we should try to find it.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2012, 08:21:08 PM »
« Edited: May 20, 2012, 08:23:54 PM by Governor Napoleon »

The only coercion relevant to this bill is the coercion against a woman's choice that exists in nearly every clause of this bill. I see that you would rather toss out ad hominems then actually defend whatever merits you see in this bill that is indeed a disaster waiting to happen.

Section 3 is not worthy of support. Section 2, the problems have already been outlined. Section 5 harasses women repeatedly about their pregnancy. Section 6 and 8 have already been discussed by the President and Section 7 allows the government to collect personal information about pregnant women without their consent. I don't believe any party of this bill should be supported and I think the Senate should read these bills before forming their opinions. This bill would do a lot of harm and not much good, most of the services are already available and exist in this bill only to give the illusion that this anti-choice bill is helping women. I wont be fooled by it.

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Seriously, guys? Once you take out the horrible parts of this bill, you are left with a small number of happy-sounding clauses that don't change current law much, if at all. Compromise? You can't meet a disaster in the middle. I stand by my comments and repudiate your attacks on my desire for compromise. There is no room for compromise on the bulk of this bill.
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