SENATE BILL: Home and Private Schooling Tax Credit Act (Vetoed, Sustained)
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  SENATE BILL: Home and Private Schooling Tax Credit Act (Vetoed, Sustained)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Home and Private Schooling Tax Credit Act (Vetoed, Sustained)  (Read 6449 times)
tpfkaw
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« Reply #75 on: June 26, 2012, 09:25:16 PM »

The member from Virginia's views seem to be rather flexible prior to and after an election, no?
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CLARENCE 2015!
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« Reply #76 on: June 26, 2012, 09:25:59 PM »

I don't think this impacts public schools too much. The problem is that the federal government shouldn't be giving tax credits for things the regions fund, it should be left up to those regions.
I appreciate your first point... as tot he second, I believe it is a disagreement in philosophy- I agree with your focus on regional rights but I believe all levels of government have the obligation to give as many rights as possible directly to the people
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LastVoter
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« Reply #77 on: June 26, 2012, 09:31:39 PM »

Nay
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #78 on: June 26, 2012, 11:06:51 PM »

Nope Angry
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Sbane
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« Reply #79 on: June 27, 2012, 03:29:01 AM »

Nay
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #80 on: June 27, 2012, 01:30:15 PM »

The member from Virginia's views seem to be rather flexible prior to and after an election, no?

Hardly.  I was never terribly convinced of this legislation, and I'm fully persuaded by the arguments made against this legislation.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #81 on: June 27, 2012, 07:21:44 PM »

Aye
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Torie
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« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2012, 07:22:06 PM »

This Bill could have been better packaged and argued perhaps, including the notion that the tax credit might leave more money for the remaining students in the public system, rather than less. Oh well.
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Frodo
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« Reply #83 on: June 27, 2012, 10:31:02 PM »

The veto override has failed.  Good.  I trust the next education reform legislation will be more balanced.  Perhaps someone would like to look at the Finland model and see how it can be adapted here to Atlasia.  
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2012, 11:05:38 PM »

As far as I can tell this is handled just like a regular vote. The override has enough votes to fail, Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.
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shua
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« Reply #85 on: June 27, 2012, 11:12:45 PM »

btw, I think this smaller tax credit is still in effect.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #86 on: June 28, 2012, 02:16:15 AM »
« Edited: June 28, 2012, 02:24:51 AM by Senator Scott »

The veto override has failed.  Good.  I trust the next education reform legislation will be more balanced.  Perhaps someone would like to look at the Finland model and see how it can be adapted here to Atlasia.  

I have actually been examining the Finnish model and trying to come up with a way of integrating that type of system into ours, but I'm still uncertain as to how we would go about this project.  Nevertheless, school vouchers won't get us anywhere close to that.

And if we already have a voucher program in place, then passing the current bill seems somewhat unnecessary...
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #87 on: June 28, 2012, 09:00:11 AM »

Senator Scott,

I do think some of the Finnish Model has merit but while reading about it I didn't see anything in it concerning homeschooling or parochial schools. Why is that?
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #88 on: June 28, 2012, 09:31:25 AM »

Senator Scott,

I do think some of the Finnish Model has merit but while reading about it I didn't see anything in it concerning homeschooling or parochial schools. Why is that?

According to Senator Ben's article, they do not exist.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #89 on: June 28, 2012, 09:42:48 AM »
« Edited: June 28, 2012, 09:44:49 AM by Senator Scott »

Senator Scott,

I do think some of the Finnish Model has merit but while reading about it I didn't see anything in it concerning homeschooling or parochial schools. Why is that?

They simply don't use them.  I am supportive of allowing those means of education as options, but effectively parochial ones would be publicly financed under a Finland-based system.
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #90 on: June 28, 2012, 02:30:10 PM »


That actually was Frodo, a resident of the Mideast.  I appreciate the credit, but it is unearned.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #91 on: June 28, 2012, 03:34:29 PM »

Senator Scott,

I do think some of the Finnish Model has merit but while reading about it I didn't see anything in it concerning homeschooling or parochial schools. Why is that?

They simply don't use them.  I am supportive of allowing those means of education as options, but effectively parochial ones would be publicly financed under a Finland-based system.

 And this demonstrates why the national government shouldn't have control regarding education or healthcare. If the federal government controls the funds it has shown it will want to control what is taught. That's why education and healthcare should be a purview of the regions.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #92 on: June 28, 2012, 04:33:01 PM »

Senator Scott,

I do think some of the Finnish Model has merit but while reading about it I didn't see anything in it concerning homeschooling or parochial schools. Why is that?

They simply don't use them.  I am supportive of allowing those means of education as options, but effectively parochial ones would be publicly financed under a Finland-based system.

 And this demonstrates why the national government shouldn't have control regarding education or healthcare. If the federal government controls the funds it has shown it will want to control what is taught. That's why education and healthcare should be a purview of the regions.

Well, yes, there would obviously be changes made to the curriculum to replace the failed 'teach-to-the-test' system we have now, but I don't see what's wrong with that.  Also, if you're saying that education should only be left to the regions to make decisions on, then that totally stands in contradiction to your support for this bill.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #93 on: June 28, 2012, 04:43:44 PM »

Actually it doesn't contridict. My view is if the federal government is going to have control over the regions regarding education, it would be my responsibility to limit its power to interfere with the educational choices of our families. A tax credit, which is what this is, aids middle and lower income families should they choose to send their kids to a private school or home school them. Its a gradual step towards removing the federal government from the purview of education.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #94 on: June 28, 2012, 04:51:02 PM »

Actually it doesn't contridict. My view is if the federal government is going to have control over the regions regarding education, it would be my responsibility to limit its power to interfere with the educational choices of our families. A tax credit, which is what this is, aids middle and lower income families should they choose to send their kids to a private school or home school them. Its a gradual step towards removing the federal government from the purview of education.

Clarence's bill affects schools nationwide without regarding regional powers, so it is control because it sets education policy for regions that are funding these schools, even if those regions would rather not have it in place.  Whether you support the legislation or not, that's exactly what it does.
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CLARENCE 2015!
clarence
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« Reply #95 on: June 28, 2012, 06:01:21 PM »

Actually it doesn't contridict. My view is if the federal government is going to have control over the regions regarding education, it would be my responsibility to limit its power to interfere with the educational choices of our families. A tax credit, which is what this is, aids middle and lower income families should they choose to send their kids to a private school or home school them. Its a gradual step towards removing the federal government from the purview of education.

Clarence's bill affects schools nationwide without regarding regional powers, so it is control because it sets education policy for regions that are funding these schools, even if those regions would rather not have it in place.  Whether you support the legislation or not, that's exactly what it does.
I'd be the first to admit it sets policy- and that policy is to give as much decision-making power to the parents as possible. As some one who is a strong believer in states rights when it comes to real world politics, I am that way because I believe states are more likely to give rights directly to the people. The goal of promoting regional rights shouldn't be doing so for the sake of doing so- it should be because that is the way to give more power directly to citizens. In the case of my bill- I bypass the regions and give power directly to citizens

Am I getting my point across?
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #96 on: June 28, 2012, 06:42:08 PM »

Actually it doesn't contridict. My view is if the federal government is going to have control over the regions regarding education, it would be my responsibility to limit its power to interfere with the educational choices of our families. A tax credit, which is what this is, aids middle and lower income families should they choose to send their kids to a private school or home school them. Its a gradual step towards removing the federal government from the purview of education.

Clarence's bill affects schools nationwide without regarding regional powers, so it is control because it sets education policy for regions that are funding these schools, even if those regions would rather not have it in place.  Whether you support the legislation or not, that's exactly what it does.
I'd be the first to admit it sets policy- and that policy is to give as much decision-making power to the parents as possible. As some one who is a strong believer in states rights when it comes to real world politics, I am that way because I believe states are more likely to give rights directly to the people. The goal of promoting regional rights shouldn't be doing so for the sake of doing so- it should be because that is the way to give more power directly to citizens. In the case of my bill- I bypass the regions and give power directly to citizens

Am I getting my point across?

Yes, Clarence.  While our goals on the education issue might differ, I understand why you proposed the bill.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #97 on: June 29, 2012, 07:34:12 PM »

Vote on whether or not to Override the President's Veto of the Home and Private Schooling Tax Credit Act:

Aye (3): Clarence, NC Yankee and Wormyguy
Nay (5): Ben, ILV, sbane, Scott, and Seatown
Abstain (2): AndrewPA and TJ in Cleve

With 2/3rds of the Senate having not voted in the affirmative, the President's Veto is sustained.
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