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Author Topic: What were the most evil nations in history?  (Read 4750 times)
Snowstalker
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« on: May 19, 2012, 05:30:59 pm »
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Obviously most people's first instinct would be to say "Nazi Germany". But the more I think of it, the more accurate this list seems to be:

10. The Ottoman Empire
9. The Spanish Empire
8. The People's Republic of China
7. Confederate States of America
6. Belgium (under Leopold II)
5. Democratic Kampuchea
4. Soviet Union
3. Imperial Japan
2. Nazi Germany
1. The British Empire

The criteria were:

  • Body counts, of course, but not just the numbers. The percentage of a population killed and the reasons for doing so also counted
  • The reasons for founding the particular entity; this probably boosted the CSA, for instance.
  • Wars of aggression, including their scale and motivation.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 12:54:51 am by Snowstalker »Logged

Antonio V
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 05:45:11 pm »
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A nation is neither good nor evil. It's really the regime and the rulers which matter.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



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Ernest
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2012, 06:21:31 pm »

Democratic Kampuchea is clearly number one.  When you kill so many people even other evil nations turn against you, you realize that even evil has standards.

As for the CSA, that shouldn't even make the top fifty.  Slavery isn't the worst of evils, and the form of slavery practiced in the CSA wasn't  the worst, tho it wasn't the best either.
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My ballot:
Haley(R) Gov.
Sellers(D) Lt. Gov.
Hammond(R) Sec. of State
Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
Hutto(D/Working Families) US Sen (full)
Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
Quinn(R) SC House District 69
TBD: Lex 1 School Board
Yes: Am. 1 (allow charity raffles)
No: Am. 2 (end election of the Adj. General)
No: Local Sales Tax
Yes: Temp Beer/Wine Permits
Snowstalker
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2012, 06:37:12 pm »
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A nation is neither good nor evil. It's really the regime and the rulers which matter.

Okay, regimes.

The CSA was on there entirely because it was formed for the sole purpose of keeping slavery alive.

And a bit surprised at the lack of a sh**tstorm over my #1 choice. Tongue
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2012, 08:48:42 pm »
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I'd write something abusive, but this thread is so mind-numbingly stupid that there's really no point. Please delete yourself from the internets.
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
Snowstalker
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2012, 10:39:52 pm »
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I'd write something abusive, but this thread is so mind-numbingly stupid that there's really no point. Please delete yourself from the internets.

Ah, I knew I'd piss off a Brit.
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2012, 11:05:56 pm »
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Where's the Ottoman Empire?
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2012, 12:08:45 am »
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This is a terrible thread.
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Ernest
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2012, 12:51:12 am »

This is a terrible thread.

No, it is an evil thread.
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My ballot:
Haley(R) Gov.
Sellers(D) Lt. Gov.
Hammond(R) Sec. of State
Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
Hutto(D/Working Families) US Sen (full)
Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
Quinn(R) SC House District 69
TBD: Lex 1 School Board
Yes: Am. 1 (allow charity raffles)
No: Am. 2 (end election of the Adj. General)
No: Local Sales Tax
Yes: Temp Beer/Wine Permits
Snowstalker
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E: -8.45, S: -4.26

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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2012, 12:53:28 am »
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Where's the Ottoman Empire?

Dammit.
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The Obamanation
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2012, 01:33:36 am »
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North Korea? 2000-Present United States?
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ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2012, 01:38:41 am »
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I'd put Mao's China up high.
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2012, 10:44:24 am »
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This thread is bad and you should feel at least as bad as John Wayne Bobbitt.
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R2D2
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2012, 11:12:48 am »
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I'd write something abusive, but this thread is so mind-numbingly stupid that there's really no point. Please delete yourself from the internets.

Ah, I knew I'd piss off a Brit.

You didn't piss off a Brit, you pissed off Al.
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SJoyce
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2012, 11:13:24 am »
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Uzbekistan. They boil people. Then the U.S. pays them lots of money, the U.S. can use their airport to invade other nations ending in -stan, and they can buy larger man-boiling pots. Wonderful cycle.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 02:48:04 pm by Secretary of External Affairs SJoyceFla »Logged

Mechaman
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2012, 11:27:52 am »
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The Assyrian Empire.

THEY ATE BABIES!
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R2D2
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2012, 01:27:26 pm »
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The Assyrian Empire.

THEY ATE BABIES!

Freedom empire.
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2012, 01:33:43 pm »
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Obviously most people's first instinct would be to say "Nazi Germany". But the more I think of it, the more accurate this list seems to be:

10. The Ottoman Empire
9. The Spanish Empire
8. The People's Republic of China
7. Confederate States of America
6. Belgium (under Leopold II)
5. Democratic Kampuchea
4. Soviet Union
3. Imperial Japan
2. Nazi Germany
1. The British Empire

The criteria were:

  • Body counts, of course, but not just the numbers. The percentage of a population killed and the reasons for doing so also counted
  • The reasons for founding the particular entity; this probably boosted the CSA, for instance.
  • Wars of aggression, including their scale and motivation.

I'm completely baffled how anyone could say the British Empire was worse than Nazi Germany, especially using the criteria you used. If I were a cynic I would say you just did that to try and get an enraged reaction, because I can't see any other plausible reason.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2012, 02:31:29 pm »
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If I were a cynic I would say you just did that to try and get an enraged reaction

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BK without all the crazy drugs just wouldn't be BK.

Snowstalker
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2012, 03:45:58 pm »
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Obviously most people's first instinct would be to say "Nazi Germany". But the more I think of it, the more accurate this list seems to be:

10. The Ottoman Empire
9. The Spanish Empire
8. The People's Republic of China
7. Confederate States of America
6. Belgium (under Leopold II)
5. Democratic Kampuchea
4. Soviet Union
3. Imperial Japan
2. Nazi Germany
1. The British Empire

The criteria were:

  • Body counts, of course, but not just the numbers. The percentage of a population killed and the reasons for doing so also counted
  • The reasons for founding the particular entity; this probably boosted the CSA, for instance.
  • Wars of aggression, including their scale and motivation.

I'm completely baffled how anyone could say the British Empire was worse than Nazi Germany, especially using the criteria you used. If I were a cynic I would say you just did that to try and get an enraged reaction, because I can't see any other plausible reason.

500 years of conquest and slaughter>6 years of conquest and slaughter.

Who invented concentration camps? The British, in their conquest of the Boer states.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2012, 04:33:00 pm »
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Obviously most people's first instinct would be to say "Nazi Germany". But the more I think of it, the more accurate this list seems to be:

10. The Ottoman Empire
9. The Spanish Empire
8. The People's Republic of China
7. Confederate States of America
6. Belgium (under Leopold II)
5. Democratic Kampuchea
4. Soviet Union
3. Imperial Japan
2. Nazi Germany
1. The British Empire

The criteria were:

  • Body counts, of course, but not just the numbers. The percentage of a population killed and the reasons for doing so also counted
  • The reasons for founding the particular entity; this probably boosted the CSA, for instance.
  • Wars of aggression, including their scale and motivation.

I'm completely baffled how anyone could say the British Empire was worse than Nazi Germany, especially using the criteria you used. If I were a cynic I would say you just did that to try and get an enraged reaction, because I can't see any other plausible reason.

500 years of conquest and slaughter>6 years of conquest and slaughter.

Who invented concentration camps? The British, in their conquest of the Boer states.

Okay, hell, I'll bite.

First, the British didn't invent concentration camps. Before the Boer war, the Russians used similar strategies to deal with Polish rebels; the Spanish used them in Cuba; the United States used comparable camps when relocating Native Americans and definitely used outright concentration camps in the occupation of the Philippines.

However, the comparison of these concentration camps (though they were atrocious in themselves) to Nazi Germany's nation-wide system of facilities explicitly intended to conduct murder on a massive scale is simply disingenuous.

Furthermore, while British colonial policies were pretty bad in a lot of ways, I don't see how it compares in the slightest to Nazi Germany's utterly evil nature. Come on: blatant genocide, horrible oppression, ambitions to eventually enslave or murder every single person who wasn't a regime-supporting Aryan. Sure, the British Empire has some bad marks, but what did they do that is anywhere nearly as bad as that?
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2012, 04:37:13 pm »
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Not that I want to get involved in this thread in anything other than a sneering capacity, but note that the use of 'concentration camps' in the context of the Holocaust is a euphemism. And a disgusting one, actually.
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2012, 05:12:07 pm »
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Obviously not a fan of the British Empire but this is pretty laughable. While facets and some actions were evil by today's standards and a smaller number by the standards of the time, a lot of the "evil" results came from neglect, disease, commercial exploitation, and a sharply crafted divide and conquer strategy that made the subjected complicit in their own demise. There were also quite a few positive develops from the Empire. What did the Nazis do good at all, the Autobahn?

Comrade Al Sibboleth, I know you do want to stick around the muck here, but your mention of the euphemism made me curious.  Growing up in history class I never remember hearing about extermination camps or really even death camps. It was only taught as concentration camps. Any idea when these more accurate (for Auschwitz, Sobibor etc) terms gained traction. 
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wormyguy
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2012, 06:45:13 pm »
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The State.  Not really important what it chooses to call itself.
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« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2012, 08:08:27 pm »
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If nothing else, the fact that the British Empire nearly singlehandedly killed the transoceanic slave trade in the early 19th century should keep them off the top stop.
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