Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 29, 2014, 04:59:58 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Individual Politics (Moderators: Grad Students are the Worst, Torie, Sheriff Buford TX Justice)
| | |-+  Opinion of the phrase "States Rights"
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Poll
Question: Opinion of the phrase "States Rights"
Freedom Phrase   -18 (29.5%)
Horrible Phrase   -34 (55.7%)
Neutral   -9 (14.8%)
Show Pie Chart
Total Voters: 61

Author Topic: Opinion of the phrase "States Rights"  (Read 1629 times)
They call me PR
Progressive Realist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5468
United States


View Profile
« on: May 20, 2012, 02:57:58 pm »
Ignore

Absolutely vile, horrible phrase. Reactionary to the extreme, in pretty much every context it's ever been used.
Logged
realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6508
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 3.48

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 02:58:46 pm »
Ignore

An evil phrase used by people with evil ideologies.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 03:00:22 pm by realisticidealist »Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28005
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 04:49:24 pm »
Ignore

Positive, tho it has been tarnished by the uses to which it has been put.  But even in those cases, it served as a sort of safety valve, generally allowing volatile issues in which there was a strong sectional difference of opinion to be resolved more peacefully than otherwise would have been the case.
Logged

I wonder why Van Heusen never bothered to make women's clothing?
Robb the Survivor
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30598
France


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2012, 05:34:12 pm »
Ignore

Systematically used as an excuse to restrict human rights.
Logged



Robb of the House Stark, First of his Name, Lord of Winterfell and King in the North



Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
tweed
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 35450
United States


Political Matrix
E: -8.52, S: -8.00

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 05:34:44 pm »
Ignore

has a poor history
Logged
○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31457


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2012, 05:45:03 pm »
Ignore

Horrible phrase. Used extensively to advance right-wing causes, but ignored where it would help liberals, like Gonzales v. Carhart  or Bush v. Gore.
Logged
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11305
Russian Federation


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2012, 05:56:45 pm »
Ignore

While I agree with what it sometimes means, it's too associated with awful things in the past and it's easily misunderstood.  It's true as some critics have said "states don't have rights, people do."  At the same time, states play an important role in balancing the impulses of the national government to take power and infringe on those rights.  Federalism or subsidiarity are better terms.
Logged

Scott
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18845
United States
View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2012, 06:17:49 pm »
Ignore

A phrase libertarians like to use to say that government restricting people's rights is okay, just as long that it's at the state level.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 06:22:23 pm by Senator Scott »Logged
Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
Vazdul
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4409
United States


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2012, 06:39:34 pm »
Ignore

Absolutely vile, horrible phrase. Reactionary to the extreme, in pretty much every context it's ever been used.
^^
Logged

Seriously, it was time to change back to the real avatar.
Frodo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13455
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2012, 06:43:07 pm »
Ignore

While I agree with what it sometimes means, it's too associated with awful things in the past and it's easily misunderstood.  It's true as some critics have said "states don't have rights, people do."  At the same time, states play an important role in balancing the impulses of the national government to take power and infringe on those rights.  Federalism or subsidiarity are better terms.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Shua says it best.  The phrase itself may be too tightly entwined with the Confederacy and Jim Crow that it can never be fully restored, but the federalist principle behind it remains as crucial as ever in balancing against the power of the federal government. 
Logged

realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6508
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 3.48

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2012, 07:33:49 pm »
Ignore

Federalism is inherently a bad idea. Even without that history, it would be a terrible phrase.
Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
Senator-elect Polnut
polnut
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13125
Australia


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2012, 07:47:41 pm »
Ignore

In theory... potentially fine, as it's been practiced... pretty fricking awful...
Logged


Dogma is a comfortable thing, it saves you from thought - Sir Robert Menzies
Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8146
United States


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2012, 10:25:23 pm »
Ignore

He was a decent poster.
Logged
Governor TJ
TJ in Cleve
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4825
United States


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2012, 10:29:09 pm »
Ignore

meh

It seems to be used to dodge policy questions in a variety of circumstances, but still has its useful role in American politics. There are some perfectly valid reasons why states might have different laws.
Logged

They call me PR
Progressive Realist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5468
United States


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2012, 10:51:03 pm »
Ignore

Federalism is inherently a bad idea.

Albeit not as bad an idea as "Communitarianism." Cheesy
Logged
Redalgo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2501
United States


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2012, 12:34:36 am »
Ignore

While I agree with what it sometimes means, it's too associated with awful things in the past and it's easily misunderstood.  It's true as some critics have said "states don't have rights, people do."  At the same time, states play an important role in balancing the impulses of the national government to take power and infringe on those rights.  Federalism or subsidiarity are better terms.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Shua says it best.  The phrase itself may be too tightly entwined with the Confederacy and Jim Crow that it can never be fully restored, but the federalist principle behind it remains as crucial as ever in balancing against the power of the federal government. 

Agreed, ya.
Logged

"I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to see realized." ~ Nelson Mandela
So rightwing that I broke the Political Compass!
Rockingham
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 526


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 02:09:21 am »
Ignore

Neutral. Remember that while states rights enabled states to retain slavery, they also allowed states to abolish slavery. Similarly states rights allowed abortion legality to gain a foothold, and has allowed gay marriage to gain a foothold.

As a matter of principle I prefer state action to federal action, simply because the US is so bloody diverse... it doesn't make much sense for Massachusetts, Hawaii, Utah and Georgia to be subject to the same socioeconomic policies...

I know a lot of leftwingers favour federal action as a means of keeping conservatism in check in red states... they should remember the same federal action curtails liberalism in blue states. If you have genuine confidence in your ideology you should feel comfortable delegating more authority to the states and letting the results speak for themselves.

Especially since red states are net winners in terms of federal revenue while blue states are net losers... more delegation of fiscal matters to states would be to the advantage of left leaning states financially.

It also happens to be more fundamentally democratic to have policy issues decided by 50 different units separately then it is for policy issues to be decided by one super unit combining those 50 units.
Logged
R2D2
20RP12
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22160
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -7.94, S: -8.09

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 05:26:40 am »
Ignore

Freedom Phrase said the lone conservative libertarian as he was chased out of this thread.
Logged

Vacationing in New Jersey 08/23-08/30


Also, it's so R-Money to unabashedly ruin a thousand dollar suit with ice water and laugh about it.
fezzyfestoon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8288
United States


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2012, 11:45:26 am »
Ignore

The concept independent of its use in history is acceptable and even something I'd go so far as to promote, but like everyone's said so far, it's been used as a guise for some of the most unsavory political movements in our history.
Logged
SJoyce of Harrenhal
sjoycefla
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8854
United States


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2012, 12:04:32 pm »
Ignore

Neutral: Freedom Phrase in concept, Horrible Phrase in application.
Logged

realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6508
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 3.48

View Profile
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2012, 02:10:48 pm »
Ignore

Federalism is inherently a bad idea.

Albeit not as bad an idea as "Communitarianism." Cheesy

kthx. I am enlightened now.
Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
ChairmanSanchez
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15123
United States


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2012, 05:02:52 pm »
Ignore

The foundation of this countries freedoms. Imagine if the Southern states had power over the whole government in the 1840's and enforced slavery upon the North. States Rights restricted them to the South.
Logged

If a burial strikes my family as too practical, I'd go for either a viking funeral on one of the Great Lakes or to be sealed up in a tomb with my closest servants and bang-maids so they may wait on my every need in the afterlife.
Warner for Senate '14
benconstine
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30554
United States


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2012, 09:47:10 pm »
Ignore

Positive, tho it has been tarnished by the uses to which it has been put.

My position exactly.  It's a good idea distorted by some bad men.
Logged

Obama High's debate team:

"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
Oldiesfreak1854
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8636
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 1.91

P P P

View Profile WWW
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2012, 04:25:57 pm »
Ignore

The people who used "states' rights" as an argument against civil rights legislation were abusing the phrase.  It was never relevant to desegregation because the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment (passed shortly after the Civil War) stated that Congress could pass any legislation to ensure equal protection under the law.  I asked one of my PoliSci instructors this question and he said that by making these arguments, the Southern states were essentially calling for a return to the Articles of Confederation (the federal government before the Constitution), which was too weak and limited federal powers too much to be effective.  And for that matter, states' rights were originally created for a purpose much the opposite: it was intended to keep slavery confined to the South and prevent it from expanding onto a national scale.  Even today, you could give states all the rights you (or they) wanted and racial segregation is still NEVER coming back.  (Good riddance!)  I would agree with the opinion posted earlier that it was a good idea distorted and abused by some very bad (as well as a few well-intentioned, but misguided) people.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 04:38:56 pm by Oldiesfreak1854 »Logged

Quote from: Dwight D. Eisenhower
There is nothing wrong with America that the faith, love of freedom, intelligence, and energy of her citizens cannot cure.

Mark Schauer's biggest supporter:
Senator Alfred F. Jones
Alfred F. Jones
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8576
United States


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2012, 10:28:31 am »
Ignore

Normally it would be good, but I said horrible phrase because it's a modern-day code for racism.
Logged



There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

Alfred is the Atlasian equivalent of a malevolent deity.

Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines