Personal reactions to the PPACA decision
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 19, 2024, 06:21:54 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Individual Politics (Moderator: The Dowager Mod)
  Personal reactions to the PPACA decision
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: Personal reactions to the PPACA decision  (Read 3824 times)
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,891
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2012, 05:14:27 AM »

Liberals/lefties who act like this bill is pointless because it's not left-wing enough for them really annoy me. The point of passing social policy like this is not to prove a point or something, it's to help people and make society better. This bill does that. It expands health insurance coverage to tens of millions of people who didn't have it before. Those are real people, real human beings who can now afford to go to the doctor and treat diseases and ailments that they couldn't before. This policy is only "awful" to idealistic middle-class left-wingers on the internet who are completely removed from the reality of the people whose lives will be materially better because of this legislation.

I actually fully agree with this post. When I looked back on my initial thoughts, I was surprised that I said something so harsh against a piece of legislation that I still zealously defend because of the major impacts it will make in the lives of millions. It's one of the few reasons that I'm proud to consider myself a Democrat and an Obama supporter at this point.  At the same time though, do you honestly think that this bill was constructed well as far as long term policy goes? My concerns aren't that it doesn't introduce a single player system or a public option (it was moronic to expect that to happen), my concerns are that it doesn't properly address the skyrocketing costs of care that are strangling the system and that "Obamacare" is doomed to failure in the same way that the health care system would be without it.

No, it wasn't. Obama had the political capital to push that through and supermajorities in both houses. The game wasn't necessarily going to be won, but it would certainly have been worth playing.
Logged
TheDeadFlagBlues
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,990
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2012, 05:47:59 AM »

Liberals/lefties who act like this bill is pointless because it's not left-wing enough for them really annoy me. The point of passing social policy like this is not to prove a point or something, it's to help people and make society better. This bill does that. It expands health insurance coverage to tens of millions of people who didn't have it before. Those are real people, real human beings who can now afford to go to the doctor and treat diseases and ailments that they couldn't before. This policy is only "awful" to idealistic middle-class left-wingers on the internet who are completely removed from the reality of the people whose lives will be materially better because of this legislation.

I actually fully agree with this post. When I looked back on my initial thoughts, I was surprised that I said something so harsh against a piece of legislation that I still zealously defend because of the major impacts it will make in the lives of millions. It's one of the few reasons that I'm proud to consider myself a Democrat and an Obama supporter at this point.  At the same time though, do you honestly think that this bill was constructed well as far as long term policy goes? My concerns aren't that it doesn't introduce a single player system or a public option (it was moronic to expect that to happen), my concerns are that it doesn't properly address the skyrocketing costs of care that are strangling the system and that "Obamacare" is doomed to failure in the same way that the health care system would be without it.

No, it wasn't. Obama had the political capital to push that through and supermajorities in both houses. The game wasn't necessarily going to be won, but it would certainly have been worth playing.

Imagine how intense the ad war against the bill would have been if Obama actively pushed for the legislation that we desire. It would have died a quick death after the barrage of misleading information and spooky talking points that would fill the airwaves.

In my opinion the risk was worth taking but I'd give it very slim odds and it more than likely would have meant that the failure of a broad reform.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,891
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2012, 05:54:04 AM »

Liberals/lefties who act like this bill is pointless because it's not left-wing enough for them really annoy me. The point of passing social policy like this is not to prove a point or something, it's to help people and make society better. This bill does that. It expands health insurance coverage to tens of millions of people who didn't have it before. Those are real people, real human beings who can now afford to go to the doctor and treat diseases and ailments that they couldn't before. This policy is only "awful" to idealistic middle-class left-wingers on the internet who are completely removed from the reality of the people whose lives will be materially better because of this legislation.

I actually fully agree with this post. When I looked back on my initial thoughts, I was surprised that I said something so harsh against a piece of legislation that I still zealously defend because of the major impacts it will make in the lives of millions. It's one of the few reasons that I'm proud to consider myself a Democrat and an Obama supporter at this point.  At the same time though, do you honestly think that this bill was constructed well as far as long term policy goes? My concerns aren't that it doesn't introduce a single player system or a public option (it was moronic to expect that to happen), my concerns are that it doesn't properly address the skyrocketing costs of care that are strangling the system and that "Obamacare" is doomed to failure in the same way that the health care system would be without it.

No, it wasn't. Obama had the political capital to push that through and supermajorities in both houses. The game wasn't necessarily going to be won, but it would certainly have been worth playing.

Imagine how intense the ad war against the bill would have been if Obama actively pushed for the legislation that we desire. It would have died a quick death after the barrage of misleading information and spooky talking points that would fill the airwaves.

In my opinion the risk was worth taking but I'd give it very slim odds and it more than likely would have meant that the failure of a broad reform.

Are you saying that the right's cultural hegemony is so strong as to never be possibly challenged ? Sadly, you might be right. But any time we renounce to challenge it for this reason, we actually make it stronger. Why would anyone support a public option if even the supposedly left-wing party doesn't ? The saddest thing is that polls showed that a health care reform with public option would have been way more popular than the one actually passed.
Logged
BritishDixie
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 278
United Kingdom


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2012, 09:00:33 AM »

Saw it, thought "Eh, we need a new Congress and a new President. Guess we need a new Court too." and went on with my day.

Huh, I thought you were left wing?
Logged
They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
20RP12
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,149
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.29, S: -7.13

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2012, 11:56:39 AM »

Saw it, thought "Eh, we need a new Congress and a new President. Guess we need a new Court too." and went on with my day.

Huh, I thought you were left wing?

lolno
Logged
Snowstalker Mk. II
Snowstalker
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,414
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.10, S: -4.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2012, 12:14:08 PM »

I concur with Lief; it's not perfect, but when is anything that goes through Washington ever just right?
Logged
LastVoter
seatown
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,322
Thailand


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2012, 01:00:18 AM »

Liberals/lefties who act like this bill is pointless because it's not left-wing enough for them really annoy me. The point of passing social policy like this is not to prove a point or something, it's to help people and make society better. This bill does that. It expands health insurance coverage to tens of millions of people who didn't have it before. Those are real people, real human beings who can now afford to go to the doctor and treat diseases and ailments that they couldn't before. This policy is only "awful" to idealistic middle-class left-wingers on the internet who are completely removed from the reality of the people whose lives will be materially better because of this legislation.

I actually fully agree with this post. When I looked back on my initial thoughts, I was surprised that I said something so harsh against a piece of legislation that I still zealously defend because of the major impacts it will make in the lives of millions. It's one of the few reasons that I'm proud to consider myself a Democrat and an Obama supporter at this point.  At the same time though, do you honestly think that this bill was constructed well as far as long term policy goes? My concerns aren't that it doesn't introduce a single player system or a public option (it was moronic to expect that to happen), my concerns are that it doesn't properly address the skyrocketing costs of care that are strangling the system and that "Obamacare" is doomed to failure in the same way that the health care system would be without it.

No, it wasn't. Obama had the political capital to push that through and supermajorities in both houses. The game wasn't necessarily going to be won, but it would certainly have been worth playing.
I think if actual Universal healthcare was passed without a Republican say in it, there would have been more support from leftists, and less moderates/independants would believe the FOXNews propaganda because there wouldn't be any actual substance to those attacks, with support of almost 50% of the US public rather than 35-40 for the current bill.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.229 seconds with 12 queries.