Olmert: Jerusalem must be partitioned

[Cory]

I've always found it ironic that the Jewish nation of all people has a policy of expanding it's Lebensraum to the East and exporting the undesirables.

[k-onmmunist]

I've always found it ironic that the Jewish nation of all people has a policy of expanding it's Lebensraum to the East and exporting the undesirables.

Sure... that's why Arabs have better human rights than in their own countries in Israel. That's why women can vote and gays don't have to live in fear of jail or worse. Israeli apartheid is a myth.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I've always found it ironic that the Jewish nation of all people has a policy of expanding it's Lebensraum to the East and exporting the undesirables.

Sure... that's why Arabs have better human rights than in their own countries in Israel. That's why women can vote and gays don't have to live in fear of jail or worse. Israeli apartheid is a myth.

Yeah, Israel's record on human rights is indeed squeaky clean.

There are situations when "but xxx is worse" doesn't work.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

A good thing he's a former PM.

I hate empty quoting. But this must be seconded.

Indeed.

Amen!!!

The reason I agree is look at Jerusalem now- Christians and Muslims can enter and worship. Look at Mecca- only Muslims are permitted toenter. East Jerusalem has sites holy to many faiths and I worry what the result of Palestinian control would be for worshipers

Palestinians are fairly moderate Islamists, unlike the Saudis.

There is no such thing as "moderate" Muslim.

Do you know anything about the Muslims outside of some neobolshevik propaganda crap?

I live in a city where lives about 2 millions Muslims, I saw how they act here.

Ah, so every single one of the 1.57 billion Muslims populating the entire world is acting just like some Muslims you saw in your city, since I assume you haven't saw all of these 2 millions "here".

That's a brilliant fact-gathering, man. Fascinating.

[politicus]

Jerusalem should have been put under UN sovereignty in 1948 because it is a holy city for three major religions, but that didn't happen and its water under the bridge. Today Jerusalem belongs to Israel by the right of conquest and is surrounded by Israeli suburbs. There is no point in clinging to the dated idea, that East Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine.
You guys may be right, that there will never be peace in the area as long as Jerusalem is united, but you might as well say, that the there will never be peace before the Palestinians start to get realistic about Jerusalem. Other peoples have had to give up important historical cities and areas and live with it. Konstantinopel is no longer Greek, Karelia is no longer Finnish, most of Armenia including the holy mountain Ararat is in Turkey etc.  In the same way the Palestinians will at some point have to give up the idea that Jerusalem belongs to them.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Jerusalem should have been put under UN sovereignty in 1948 because it is a holy town fo three major religions, but that didnt happen and its water under the bridge.

I'm not sure it would ever work. The history knows dozens of example of internationally-supervised, "free cities", that failed.

Beside, now that'd cause only a major anger among both Jews and Arabs.

Looking for other examples, there are several cities that are partially located in one country, and partially in another.

[NY Jew]

A good thing he's a former PM.

I hate empty quoting. But this must be seconded.

Indeed.

Amen!!!

The reason I agree is look at Jerusalem now- Christians and Muslims can enter and worship. Look at Mecca- only Muslims are permitted toenter. East Jerusalem has sites holy to many faiths and I worry what the result of Palestinian control would be for worshipers

Palestinians are fairly moderate Islamists, unlike the Saudis.

please tell that to my cousin who was shot at and had one of her good friends murdered by a terrorist.
please tell that to another one of my cousins who was injured with his wife in a suicide bombing.

any other lies you want to spread?

Some Palestians in the Hamas are killing people for political reasons, therefore, all Palestinians are bad.
Some White Americans in the KKK were killing people for political reasons, therefore, all White Americans are bad.

It's a bit unfair, no?

Fatah also has many suicide bombings.

and yes if the KKK condoned the murders and the KKK won many seats in congress then yes most White Americans are bad.

and lets try to use the word "murdering"

but this is why I don't normally comment on these issues why argue with anti semites who would love to see me dead.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

A good thing he's a former PM.

I hate empty quoting. But this must be seconded.

Indeed.

Amen!!!

The reason I agree is look at Jerusalem now- Christians and Muslims can enter and worship. Look at Mecca- only Muslims are permitted toenter. East Jerusalem has sites holy to many faiths and I worry what the result of Palestinian control would be for worshipers

Palestinians are fairly moderate Islamists, unlike the Saudis.

please tell that to my cousin who was shot at and had one of her good friends murdered by a terrorist.
please tell that to another one of my cousins who was injured with his wife in a suicide bombing.

any other lies you want to spread?

Some Palestians in the Hamas are killing people for political reasons, therefore, all Palestinians are bad.
Some White Americans in the KKK were killing people for political reasons, therefore, all White Americans are bad.

It's a bit unfair, no?

Fatah also has many suicide bombings.

and yes if the KKK condoned the murders and the KKK won many seats in congress then yes most White Americans are bad.

and lets try to use the word "murdering"

but this is why I don't normally comment on these issues why argue with anti semites who would love to see me dead.

You're not arguing with any anti-Semites who would love to see you dead. Not agreeing with the principle that a specific country that you favor and that favors your ethnoreligious group has the right to sole control of a specific city does not make somebody an anti-Semite.

[NY Jew]

A good thing he's a former PM.

I hate empty quoting. But this must be seconded.

Indeed.

Amen!!!

The reason I agree is look at Jerusalem now- Christians and Muslims can enter and worship. Look at Mecca- only Muslims are permitted toenter. East Jerusalem has sites holy to many faiths and I worry what the result of Palestinian control would be for worshipers

Palestinians are fairly moderate Islamists, unlike the Saudis.

please tell that to my cousin who was shot at and had one of her good friends murdered by a terrorist.
please tell that to another one of my cousins who was injured with his wife in a suicide bombing.

any other lies you want to spread?

Some Palestians in the Hamas are killing people for political reasons, therefore, all Palestinians are bad.
Some White Americans in the KKK were killing people for political reasons, therefore, all White Americans are bad.

It's a bit unfair, no?

Fatah also has many suicide bombings.

and yes if the KKK condoned the murders and the KKK won many seats in congress then yes most White Americans are bad.

and lets try to use the word "murdering"

but this is why I don't normally comment on these issues why argue with anti semites who would love to see me dead.

You're not arguing with any anti-Semites who would love to see you dead. Not agreeing with the principle that a specific country that you favor and that favors your ethnoreligious group has the right to sole control of a specific city does not make somebody an anti-Semite.

anyone who writes this is a idiot or Anti Semite

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this has nothing o do with politics even hard core Satmar who hate Israel would never say something so idiotic.

though maybe I shouldn't be so quick to judge him and just assume he someone who is to stupid to tie his own shoe laces.   But if he has even the slightest amount of intelligence then he's a viscous anti semite who would like to see me dead.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Why do all Israel threads end in a whataboutery contest?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

NY Jew, are you in fact a vicious anti-semite who is trying to make the Jews look bad on the internet or, using your own terms, just stupid?

[afleitch]

If I read any more bullsh-t on this thread that is nothing more than mud slinging, casual discrimination or hyperbole then your ass will be getting infracted appropriately.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

anyone who writes this is a idiot or Anti Semite

You must be logged in to read this quote.

this has nothing o do with politics even hard core Satmar who hate Israel would never say something so idiotic.

though maybe I shouldn't be so quick to judge him and just assume he someone who is to stupid to tie his own shoe laces.   But if he has even the slightest amount of intelligence then he's a viscous anti semite who would like to see me dead.

You are truly an idiot among idiots. Before you demonize me as a "anti semite", please know that I WORK for a Jewish American who is running for Congress, and I disagree strongly with him on Israel. That does not make me an anti-semite. And before I came to Christ, I WAS an anti-semite, mainly from dealing with people like you. I think Israel reaps what it sows, just like America did with 9/11, Britain did with the Mau Mau in Kenya, and Napoleon when he attacked Russia.

I am sorry for your cousin’s loss. I cannot claim to know the horror your family went through, and I understand your passion (if indeed this did happen and is not a bunch of lies on the internet), but the fact is, if Israel did not oppress Palestine over the last 60+ years, that bombing would not have occurred.

BTW, “to stupid to tie his own shoes” should be TOO stupid. A grammar lesson from me..well, you’re in a pretty deep hole.

I deserve an infraction for this post, and I apologize to afleitch, as he just warned against it. But I had to respond to this.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Jerusalem should have been put under UN sovereignty in 1948 because it is a holy city for three major religions, but that didn't happen and its water under the bridge. Today Jerusalem belongs to Israel by the right of conquest and is surrounded by Israeli suburbs. There is no point in clinging to the dated idea, that East Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine.
You guys may be right, that there will never be peace in the area as long as Jerusalem is united, but you might as well say, that the there will never be peace before the Palestinians start to get realistic about Jerusalem. Other peoples have had to give up important historical cities and areas and live with it. Konstantinopel is no longer Greek, Karelia is no longer Finnish, most of Armenia including the holy mountain Ararat is in Turkey etc.  In the same way the Palestinians will at some point have to give up the idea that Jerusalem belongs to them.

On the issue of Jerusalem itself, I would agree with this point. But, Palestine is a nation (not the Hamas government), and its wishes should at least be considered. If I were Israeli, I would prefer Tel Aviv as the capital for its geographic location anyways.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Even for a thread on this subject... urgh... trainwreck. Verging on CiF level trainwreck.

[Phony Moderate]

Verging on CiF level trainwreck.

Oh come on. It's not that bad.

[batmacumba]

A good thing he's a former PM.

I hate empty quoting. But this must be seconded.

Indeed.

Amen!!!

The reason I agree is look at Jerusalem now- Christians and Muslims can enter and worship. Look at Mecca- only Muslims are permitted toenter. East Jerusalem has sites holy to many faiths and I worry what the result of Palestinian control would be for worshipers

Palestinians are fairly moderate Islamists, unlike the Saudis.

please tell that to my cousin who was shot at and had one of her good friends murdered by a terrorist.
please tell that to another one of my cousins who was injured with his wife in a suicide bombing.

any other lies you want to spread?

What exactly does this has with religious radicalism? There were questions lamely solved since the partition. You folks took advantage their relatives attacked you to take land, destroy villages and deny them any kind of future as a nation. They feel invaded and are second class citizen in their own territory. What do you expect them, to love you and throw you flowers?

Please, avoid throwing the card of deceased relatives. I know exactly what It is to lose folks due political radicalism, in a fashion way worse than terrorist attacks. So, I know how you feel, and I also know how Palestinians who lost their beloved ones, unarmed, on the Israeli army operations feel, too, and I find disgusting to use that as a strategy to avoid rational analysis. I'm sorry, but I won't level desperate nationless miserable people with an well organized army. Neither I would put them in the same (scum)bag of Saudi millionares throwing planes around.
The time to Israelis to grow up and understand the situation has passed a long ago, and that's why over time more and more people around the world are getting pissed off with you guys.

[Хahar 🤔]

To go back to something on the first page, I think that describing the House of Saud as evil isn't at all far from the truth.

[politicus]

Even for a thread on this subject... urgh... trainwreck. Verging on CiF level trainwreck.

Partly my fault, but I think one of the reasons is that the specific topic itself is not all that interesting. Olmert is more or less a has been in Israeli politics, so his views are not terribly interesting compared to the big question of Jerusalem and its future.

All the "who is worst Saudis or Palestinians" talk is of course unnecessary. 

[Torie]

It is kind of tough to chat about policy in this part of the world, without Jew hater and such calumnies being thrown around isn't it?  And it does not take long to escalate to that point either does it?  And it tends to be a good reason why I tend to avoid threads on this topic. Thank you.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

My point of brining in the House of Saud vs Palestine was a response to Clarence. I do not think a Palestinian government in control of East Jerusalem would block Christians and Jews from religous sites, which is what the Saudis do in Mecca.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

My point of brining in the House of Saud vs Palestine was a response to Clarence. I do not think a Palestinian government in control of East Jerusalem would block Christians and Jews from religous sites, which is what the Saudis do in Mecca.

There are no non-Muslim religious sites in Mecca.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

My point of brining in the House of Saud vs Palestine was a response to Clarence. I do not think a Palestinian government in control of East Jerusalem would block Christians and Jews from religous sites, which is what the Saudis do in Mecca.

There are no non-Muslim religious sites in Mecca.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_segregation#Saudi_Arabia

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[dead0man]

My point of brining in the House of Saud vs Palestine was a response to Clarence. I do not think a Palestinian government in control of East Jerusalem would block Christians and Jews from religous sites, which is what the Saudis do in Mecca.

uhhh...Jews can't pray on the Temple Mount.  Nobody can do any archaeological work.  (but it's ok if the douche in charge uses bulldozers to clear areas and dig ditches for some reason...trashing tons of history in the process)

[The Mikado]

A good thing he's a former PM.

I hate empty quoting. But this must be seconded.

Indeed.

Amen!!!

The reason I agree is look at Jerusalem now- Christians and Muslims can enter and worship. Look at Mecca- only Muslims are permitted toenter. East Jerusalem has sites holy to many faiths and I worry what the result of Palestinian control would be for worshipers

Palestinians are fairly moderate Islamists, unlike the Saudis.

please tell that to my cousin who was shot at and had one of her good friends murdered by a terrorist.
please tell that to another one of my cousins who was injured with his wife in a suicide bombing.

any other lies you want to spread?

Terrorism to drive out the political administration in Jerusalem is a vile, horrific—

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Fatah and Hamas learned from the best.