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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: WHITE HOUSE BUDGET PROPOSAL (On the President's Desk)  (Read 9520 times)
LastVoter
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« Reply #100 on: June 03, 2012, 08:02:11 pm »
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Does anyone know what are we spending on the equivalent of Indian affairs?
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« Reply #101 on: June 03, 2012, 08:06:02 pm »
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How high can taxes be raised on the wealthy before the law of diminishing returns kicks in?

Up to 100%, since Shua isn't factoring in Laffer Curve effects (which is silly, IMO).
I actually am a little with this, though I'm trying to err on the side of underestimating them. I'm estimating those corporate revenue increases at about 3/4 what would be expected with a straight 1:1 relationship. With those income tax changes it's very hard to guess, especially since it's a slight net tax decrease averaged across rates. Of course, corporate tax rates would influence income tax revenue and vice versa but I'm not going to try to deal with that as long as people as still debating rates for each. Also, this is revenue in the short term; whether tax revenues fall in the long term from a tax increase is not something I'm trying to estimate here.
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Emperor Scott
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« Reply #102 on: June 03, 2012, 08:24:00 pm »
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Weird question- is there any way we could use this budget to merge departments of government and eliminate ones we don't need?  Obviously, the specifics would have to be worked out, but it would be great if we could use this opportunity to cut spending and bureaucracy at the same time.
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« Reply #103 on: June 03, 2012, 09:02:21 pm »
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How high can taxes be raised on the wealthy before the law of diminishing returns kicks in?

Up to 100%, since Shua isn't factoring in Laffer Curve effects (which is silly, IMO).
I actually am a little with this, though I'm trying to err on the side of underestimating them. I'm estimating those corporate revenue increases at about 3/4 what would be expected with a straight 1:1 relationship. With those income tax changes it's very hard to guess, especially since it's a slight net tax decrease averaged across rates. Of course, corporate tax rates would influence income tax revenue and vice versa but I'm not going to try to deal with that as long as people as still debating rates for each. Also, this is revenue in the short term; whether tax revenues fall in the long term from a tax increase is not something I'm trying to estimate here.

Yeah, you're doing a sorta logarithmic thing I understand (and even that caused a spaz-out from somebody), but you'd still have revenues going up all the way to 100%, which is still silly.  You have to have an inflection point somewhere, even over a one-year timespan.
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« Reply #104 on: June 03, 2012, 09:57:08 pm »
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I object to Amendment 49:24:

Quote from: Amendment 49:24 by Ben
Income Taxes:   $ 1,466.3 1,459.9 B                  
 by tax bracket                   
9.5K-35K     13 10 %          65.8 50.7 B                  
 35K-80K      24 23%        224.2 192.8 B                  
 80K-170K    28 30%        250.1 240.6 B                  
 170K-368K  35 36%        239.8 243.2 B                  
 368K-1M     40 43%        214.7 224.4 B                  
 1M-2.5M     50 57%        175.2 190.1 B                   
 2.5M+        60 64%        296.5 318.1 B                   
                  
Corporate Taxes:  $ 378.7 429.6 B                    
 rates                  
 0-50K          12 10%                   
 50-75K         23 21%                      
 75K-100K     30 27%                  
 100K-335K    31%                     
 335K-10M     33%                  
 10M-15M      34 38%                  
 15M+           35 44%


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« Reply #105 on: June 03, 2012, 10:39:32 pm »
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Not a fan of the higher rich tax rates, TJ? Wink
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« Reply #106 on: June 03, 2012, 10:42:17 pm »
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Quote from: Amendment 49:22 by Seatown
Gasoline Tax (20 cents/gallon)

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Status: A Vote is now open the above amendment, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.
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« Reply #107 on: June 03, 2012, 10:42:33 pm »
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Not a fan of the higher rich tax rates, TJ? Wink

No. I'm not going to support raising a rate already at 60%, or making the top corporate rate 44% (!). That's too much of other peoples' money right there.
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« Reply #108 on: June 03, 2012, 10:44:34 pm »
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Aye.
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« Reply #109 on: June 03, 2012, 10:48:42 pm »
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Aye on Seatown's gas Amendment.

No. I'm not going to support raising a rate already at 60%, or making the top corporate rate 44% (!). That's too much of other peoples' money right there.

Yes, but it's 44% on corporations making at least $15M, a significant amount.  Those who can pay more, should.  We're reducing rates on those who cannot afford to pay, while upping them on those who can.  That's simple fairness, and it makes economic sense, as we're making more now than we did under the original rates.
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« Reply #110 on: June 03, 2012, 11:00:18 pm »
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Aye on Seatown's gas Amendment.

No. I'm not going to support raising a rate already at 60%, or making the top corporate rate 44% (!). That's too much of other peoples' money right there.

Yes, but it's 44% on corporations making at least $15M, a significant amount.  Those who can pay more, should.  We're reducing rates on those who cannot afford to pay, while upping them on those who can.  That's simple fairness, and it makes economic sense, as we're making more now than we did under the original rates.

How are those companies supposed to grow, invest, add jobs to our economy, or heaven forbid, earn money for their shareholders if we're taking 44% of of their profits!? Large companies employ a lot of people and such a drastic increase in their taxes cannot be good for the economy.

I understand the larger companies and wealthier individuals can contribute more money to the government. I'm not advocating a flat tax. But this is too far.
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« Reply #111 on: June 03, 2012, 11:01:27 pm »
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Nay
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LastVoter
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« Reply #112 on: June 04, 2012, 12:39:10 am »
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Aye
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« Reply #113 on: June 04, 2012, 12:59:57 am »
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Aye on the gasoline tax.

I will not be supporting the higher tax on corporations. Those taxes are passed on to the consumers or it leads to lower hiring. Income taxes are already high as well, so I don't see the need to raise rates there as well.
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« Reply #114 on: June 04, 2012, 01:00:49 pm »
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Yup Grin on the gas tax.
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« Reply #115 on: June 10, 2012, 05:05:06 pm »
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Vote on Amendment 49:22 by Seatown:

Aye (5): Ben, ILV, sbane, Scott and Seatown
Nay (1): Wormyguy
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (4): AndrewCT, Clarence, NC Yankee and TJ in Cleve

The amendment has passed. I will start the next one tomorrow.
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« Reply #116 on: June 10, 2012, 06:06:03 pm »
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Sorry for being late, but Aye FTR. I was having a problem getting internet yesterday for some reason.
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Let me put this as clear as I can (saying this to myself, as well, so I can see it): I WILL get a job with CADD and I WILL keep the job.
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« Reply #117 on: June 10, 2012, 06:35:13 pm »
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Except that it ended at 10 PM on Friday. Tongue
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« Reply #118 on: June 10, 2012, 10:24:46 pm »
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I've been doing some research and working on improving my revenue models.
I'm thinking now those revenue figures I gave Ben should be considered optimistic Undecided
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« Reply #119 on: June 12, 2012, 11:37:01 am »
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Could he revise the amendment based on a more concrete analysis? How long would it take to get those numbers and revise the text?
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« Reply #120 on: June 12, 2012, 06:44:28 pm »
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Could he revise the amendment based on a more concrete analysis? How long would it take to get those numbers and revise the text?
I'm not sure what you're asking here. If you'd like I can provide a revised estimate.
I'm estimating it now as being still revenue positive compared to the current structure, but more like $10 billion rather than $50 billion.

Also, we can reduce the healthcare expenditures down to about $950 billion now that the new bill is passed.
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« Reply #121 on: June 13, 2012, 04:57:15 pm »
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Okay Ben, it's your turn! Bwahahaha!!! Tongue
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« Reply #122 on: June 13, 2012, 09:06:35 pm »
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Okay Ben, it's your turn! Bwahahaha!!! Tongue

Hmm?  If I can get numbers from Shua I can revise the Amendment, and I'm also looking into some spending cuts.
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« Reply #123 on: June 14, 2012, 11:37:58 am »
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The current income tax system is really unfair to the wealthy as the highest bracket is over half of their income and the second one is half, while many in this country pay absolutely nothing in income taxes. I would like to eliminate the 60% tax bracket without wrecking the almost-balanced nature of the budget. Here’s my attempt at an amendment:

Quote
WHITE HOUSE BUDGET PROPOSAL

                  
Income Taxes:   $ 1,466.3 1,451.4 B                  
 by tax bracket
0-9.5K             0  5%                  0 15 B (?)                  
9.5K-35K         13 10%                     65.8 B    75.9 B               
 35K-80K         24 25%                     224.2 B 233.5 B                  
 80K-170K       28                      250.1 B                  
 170K-368K      35                     239.8 B                  
 368K-1M        40                      214.7 B                  
 1M-2.5M        50                      175.2 422.3 B                   
 2.5M+            60                      296.5                  
                  
Corporate Taxes:  $ 378.7 B                    
 rates                  
 0-50K          12%                   
 50-75K         23%                      
 75K-100K     30%                  
 100K-335K    31%                     
 335K-10M     33%                  
 10M-15M      34%                  
 15M+           35%                       
                  
National Broadcaster Levy  $ 18.6 B                  
 Individual (0.25% > $50K)  $ 13.9 B                  
 Corporate (0.5% > $350K) $ 4.7 B                  
                  
Healthcare Taxes    $ 697.7 B                  
 Healthcare Payroll Tax  (CSSRA sec.4)              $ 687.4 B                  
     4.5% Apr-Jun 2012, 6% Jul-Aug 2012, 6.5% Sep-Dec 2012, 2013                  
 Health Insurance Tax   (ANHA sec.2c)                 $ 10.3 B                  
                  
Excise Taxes   $ 51.2  B                   
  Gasoline Tax  (12 20 cents/gallon)       $ 19.2 32.0 B                   
 Cigarette and Tobacco Taxes                       
    (43 cents/pack, plus 2% or 4% for various products)* $ 6.9 B                   
 Alcohol Tax        (various rates per unit, plus 4% tax)*  $ 10.2 B                   
 Marijuana Tax  (28% tax)           $ 14.9 B                    
 *(National Sin Tax Act, as amended)                  
                  
Carbon Taxes  ($25-30/ton)    $ 152.7 B                  
 Domestic              $  133.6 B                  
 Carbon Import Tax  $  19.1 B                      
                  
                  
Special Program Taxes                     
 Plastic Bag Tax (Environmental Fund)      $ 4.9 B                   
 Chain Business Differential Tax (SBA Fund)  $ 33.1 B                  
Oil Spill Protection Tax (5% on profits > $1B) $7.2 B                  
Electrical Power Transmission Network Tax (0.65 c/kW-h) $23.6 B                  
                  
Customs Duties   $ 58.2 B                  
                  
Other Revenue (Sales, Earnings, Fees, Etc.)   $ 83.4 B                  
                  
                  
Total Revenue    $2,976.3 Billion         


Budget Update: Part 2A - Tax Credits         
         
Dependent Child Tax Credit            115 B         
Education Tax Credits                       
   Higher Education                          75  B         
   Elementary/Secondary                   3.5 B         
Earned Income Tax Credit                46.3 B         
Adoption and Foster Care Credit         1.1 B         
Carbon Tax Residential Relief Credits         
   Carbon Tax Electricity Credit          11.6 B         
   Heating Fuel Consumption Credit     6.2 B         
   Fuel Efficiency Reimbursement        4.1 B         
Corporate Clean Energy Credit           2.7 B 1.2 B         
Alternate Energy R&D Credits            3.4 B         
Nuclear Waste Reprocessing Credit    2.9 B         
Public Transportation Tax Credit         6.4 B         
First-time Homebuyer Credit              2.8 B         
Retirement Savings Credits               2.5 B         
Individual Business Credits                2.2 B         
Foreign Tax Credit                          13.1 B         
  TOTAL                                    $ 298.8 297.3 Billion         

   Budget Update- Part 2B Direct Spending                
               
TOTAL Direct Spending = $ 2.767.9  2.769.9 Trillion               
               
Military Spending ($356.63 billion)               
$95.00 billion ... Military personnel               
$115.20 billion ... Operation and maintenance               
$60.00 billion .... Procurement               
$50.00 billion .... Research, development, test and evaluation               
$15.25 billion .... Military Construction, Family Housing and Other               
$18.29 billion .... Atomic Energy Defense Activities               
$2.89 billion ..... Defense Related activities               
               
Afghanistan Operations ($29.0 billion)               
$19.0 billion ..... Military Operations               
$10.00 billion .... Reconstruction aid               
               
Military Retirement ($140.5 152.5 billion)               
$46.5 billion .... Military retirement               
$40 billion .... Income security for veterans               
$9 billion ...... Veterans education, training, and rehabilitation               
$ 2 billion….. Veterans mental health resources               
$42 50 billion ..... Hospital and medical care for veterans and retired military         
$1 5 billion ...... Housing and other veterans benefits and services               
               
               
International affairs ($24.15 billion)               
$15.00 billion ...... International development and humanitarian assistance
$3.0 billion ...... International military aid               
$5.0 billion ...... Conduct of foreign affairs               
$1.15 billion ...... Foreign information and exchange activities               
               
General science, space, and technology ($23.97$18.97 billion)               
$5.62 $7.92 billion ...... National Science Foundation programs   
$3.44 $4.44 billion ...... Department of Energy general science programs      
$14.91 $6.91 billion ..... Space flight, research, and supporting activities               
               
Non-Defense Energy Spending ($14.62 $9.62 billion)               
$0.73 billion ...... Energy supply               
$1.03 billion ...... Energy conservation and preparedness               
$0.36 billion ...... Energy information, preparedness, & regulation               
$12.5 billion $7.5 billion ...... Go Green Fund               
               
Natural resources and environment ($36.06 billion)               
$5.45 billion ..... Water resources               
$9.07 billion ..... Conservation and land management               
$3.12 billion ..... Recreational & Park resources               
$8.42 billion ..... Pollution control and abatement               
$4.9 billion ....... Environmental Fund from plastic bag tax                 
$5.1 billion ....... Other natural resources               
               
Agriculture ($14.5 billion)               
$11.00 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance               
$3.50 billion ...... Agricultural research and services               
               
Commerce and Housing Loan Programs ($6.82 billion)               
$-4.28 billion ..... Federal Housing Loan Programs               
$2.17 billion ...... Postal service               
$-0.96 billion ..... Deposit insurance               
$7.96 billion ...... Universal service fund               
$1.93 billion ...... Other advancement of commerce               
               
Transportation ($87.27 billion)               
$33.13 billion ..... Highways and highway safety               
$18 billion ......... High speed rail (Transportation Infrastructure Investment Act)               
$10 billion ...... Other Mass transit               
$2.81 billion ...... Railroads               
$17.26 billion ..... Air Transportation               
$5.65 billion ...... Water transportation               
$0.42 billion ...... Other transportation               
               
Community and regional development ($59.96 billion)               
$6.25 billion ...... Community development               
$8.36 billion ...... Area and regional development               
$10.15 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance               
$2.5 billion ........ Homeless Shelter Emergency Housing               
$32.7 billion ...... Small Business Association               
               
Education ($120.95 $118.95 billion)               
$57.57 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education               
$42.72 billion ..... Higher education               
$3.23 $1.23 billion ...... Research and general education               
               
Training, labor and unemployment ($11.6 billion)               
$10 billion ...... Training and employment               
$1.6 billion ....... Labor law, statistics, and other administration               
               
Atlasian National Healthcare ($1229.13 billion)               
$299.27 billion ... IDS Community Health Partnership                
$278.07 billion ... ME Community Health Partnership                
$140.18 billion ... MW Community Health Partnership                
$257.89 billion ... NE Community Health Partnership                
$231.71 billion ... PA Community Health Partnership                
$21.81 billion ..... Central Administration Costs                
               
Non-ANH Health Spending ($37.07 billion)               
$4.7 billion ....... Disease control, public health and bioterrorism               
$29.36 billion ... Health research and training               
$3.01 billion ..... Food safety and occupational health and safety               
               
Civilian Retirement (Social Security excluded) ($72.02 billion)               
$4.89 billion ...... Civilian retirement and disability insurance               
$58.22 billion .... Federal employee retirement and disability               
$8.91 billion ...... Federal employees' and retired employees' health benefits               
               
Atlasian National Broadcaster ($6.35 billion)               
$4.6 billion …. Infrastructure buliding and acquisition                
$1.75 billion …. Initial start up costs                 
               
Aid to Low-Income Families ($182.96 billion)               
$67 billion ..... Housing assistance               
$87.58 billion ..... Food stamps               
$21 billion ...... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches)               
$4.8 billion ....... Child care funds               
$2.58 billion ...... Other aid to low-income families               
               
General Family Support ($27.06 billion)               
$8 billion ...... Foster care and adoption assistance               
$2.92 billion ...... Child support and family support programs               
$16.14 billion ..... Social and family services               
               
Administration of justice ($29.79 billion)               
$7.25 billion ..... Federal law enforcement               
$7.46 billion ..... Border security and immigration               
$7.6 billion ..... Federal litigation and judicial activities               
$3.26 billion ...... Federal prison system               
$4.22 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance               
               
General government administration ($13.3 billion)               
$2.75 billion ...... Legislative functions               
$0.95 billion ...... Executive office programs               
$7.6 billion ....... IRS & other fiscal operations               
$2 billion ...... Other general government               
               
Interest on debt ($244.73 billion)               
$244.73 billion .... Net Interest[/size]               
               
***************************************               
               
SUMMARY: Current Projected Figures for 2012               
               
Direct Spending                 $2767.9 2757.9 billion   
Tax Credits                           $298.8 297.3 billion   
TOTAL Expenditures             $3,061.3 3049.8 billion   
               
REVENUE              $2,978.5 $2,976.3 Billion               
EXPENDITURES     -$3,061.3 -$3,060.8 billion               
BALANCE                -$ 82.8 -$87.5 Billion   
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 01:05:33 pm by Senator TJ »Logged

Lt. Governor TJ
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« Reply #124 on: June 14, 2012, 11:38:26 am »
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Basically I:
-Changed the individual income tax rates to make the system fairer
-Added the proposed gas tax increase
-Cut the Corporate Clean Energy Credit by about half
-Readjusted the Science Funding to stress NSF and Energy rather than the space race
-Cut some of the Green Energy Fund
-Cut Funding to Education Research
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