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| | |-+  SENATE BILL: WHITE HOUSE BUDGET PROPOSAL (On the President's Desk)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: WHITE HOUSE BUDGET PROPOSAL (On the President's Desk)  (Read 10605 times)
Warner for President '16
benconstine
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« Reply #125 on: June 14, 2012, 12:49:17 pm »
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TJ, does that spending include the new figures from various amendments?
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Governor TJ
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« Reply #126 on: June 14, 2012, 01:07:00 pm »
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TJ, does that spending include the new figures from various amendments?

Originally it included just the gas tax increase, but I revised it to also include the veterans' funding increase we also passed. I think those are the only two amendments not related to income taxation we've passed, correct?

Truthfully now that I've noticed that, I'll need to try and find some other things to cut so that we're at least back to where we started from in terms of budget-neutrality relative to the president's proposal. $12 B is a lot to account for...
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« Reply #127 on: June 14, 2012, 11:05:20 pm »
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Here are my new calculations for Ben's amendment. net is $14.3 B.

Quote
Income Taxes:   $ 1,466.3 1,447.6 B                  
 by tax bracket                   
9.5K-35K     13 10 %          65.8 51.4 B                  
 35K-80K      24 23%        224.2 196.2 B                  
 80K-170K    28 30%        250.1 243.6 B                  
 170K-368K  35 36%        239.8 242.7 B                  
 368K-1M     40 43%        214.7 223.5 B                  
 1M-2.5M     50 57%        175.2 184.1 B                   
 2.5M+        60 64%        296.5 306.1 B                   
                  
Corporate Taxes:  $ 378.7 411.7 B                    
 rates                  
 0-50K          12 10%                   
 50-75K         23 21%                      
 75K-100K     30 27%                  
 100K-335K    31%                     
 335K-10M     33%                  
 10M-15M      34 38%                  
 15M+           35 44%
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Senator Polnut
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« Reply #128 on: June 15, 2012, 12:04:08 am »
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I can't support those upper-end tax increases... I understand the desire, but no, can't support that at all.
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« Reply #129 on: June 15, 2012, 12:16:13 am »
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TJ, does that spending include the new figures from various amendments?

Originally it included just the gas tax increase, but I revised it to also include the veterans' funding increase we also passed. I think those are the only two amendments not related to income taxation we've passed, correct?

Truthfully now that I've noticed that, I'll need to try and find some other things to cut so that we're at least back to where we started from in terms of budget-neutrality relative to the president's proposal. $12 B is a lot to account for...
I know this is small, but I'd suggest creating a seperate bracket for those making under 5k, which would mostly be students. I don't believe you should have to pay an income tax for making 1200 in a year. Jus tsaying...
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Senator Polnut
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« Reply #130 on: June 15, 2012, 12:19:09 am »
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Senator TJ...

Are you proposing increasing taxes on lower and middle-income people to give the wealthy a cut?
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« Reply #131 on: June 15, 2012, 12:21:37 am »
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I'll be fair and say that 60% is a tad high for anyone to pay, but there definitely shouldn't be taxes for people of such an extremely low income group like students, as the Vice President mentioned.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 12:23:43 am by Senator Scott »Logged
Senator Polnut
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« Reply #132 on: June 15, 2012, 12:25:38 am »
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I agree that 60% is too high a tax rate - it was my first-term tax plan that lifted the tax-free threshold to $9500.

I wouldn't support either tax amendment.
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« Reply #133 on: June 15, 2012, 12:27:08 am »
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Senator TJ...

Are you proposing increasing taxes on lower and middle-income people to give the wealthy a cut?

Whig War on Workers Tongue Wink
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Governor TJ
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« Reply #134 on: June 15, 2012, 12:27:48 am »
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Senator TJ...

Are you proposing increasing taxes on lower and middle-income people to give the wealthy a cut?

Our taxation system is too progressive. I am proposing everyone who has income ought to pay some small amount of income taxes, hoping to remove the 60% tax bracket. Other than that, I am not proposing to cut income taxes for other wealthy brackets. Atlasia is full of poorer young people who pay no taxes, thus have been voting for a progressive scale for so long that the brackets have become absurd.
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« Reply #135 on: June 15, 2012, 12:28:52 am »
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Of course everyone on here can give token complaint that 60% is too high, but I'm the only one who has tried to propose doing anything about it.
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« Reply #136 on: June 15, 2012, 12:30:45 am »
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The 60% bracket is too high, as I've said - but a tax-free threshold is there for a reason. I won't support any Budget which hits the poorest the hardest.

If someone wants to propose a cut in upper rate... without slugging the lower end to make it up... go ahead and I'll look at it.
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« Reply #137 on: June 15, 2012, 12:37:15 am »
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How about instead...

Quote
Income Taxes              
 by tax bracket                  
 9.5K-35K     13% 10%
 35K-80K      24% 22%
 80K-170K    28%    
 170K-368K  35%    
 368K-1M     40%        
 1M-2.5M     50% 44%
 2.5M+        60% 49%

I think this would make for a good compromise.  The downside of this, however, would be a steep decline in revenue...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 12:38:54 am by Senator Scott »Logged
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« Reply #138 on: June 15, 2012, 12:40:10 am »
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As the great American Senator Dick Lugar would say...

Why not a flat tax? Wink
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Senator Polnut
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« Reply #139 on: June 15, 2012, 12:41:42 am »
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How about instead...

Quote
Income Taxes              
 by tax bracket                  
 9.5K-35K     13% 10%
 35K-80K      24% 22%
 80K-170K    28%    
 170K-368K  35%    
 368K-1M     40%        
 1M-2.5M     50% 44%
 2.5M+        60% 49%

I think this would make for a good compromise.  The downside of this, however, would be a steep decline in revenue...

I like the intent... but those are MASSIVE hits to revenue in one year... if you want to propose cuts of that nature, best to phase them in over a few years.
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« Reply #140 on: June 15, 2012, 12:45:17 am »
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Would this be a workable amendment?

Quote
Income Taxes             
 by tax bracket                 
 9.5K-35K     13% 10%
 35K-80K      24% 22%
 80K-170K    28%
 170K-368K  35%
 368K-1M     40%

 1M-2.5M
Fiscal Year 2012: 48%
Fiscal Year 2013: 46%
Fiscal Year 2014: 44%

 2.5M+
Fiscal Year 2012: 57%
Fiscal Year 2013: 54%
Fiscal Year 2014: 51%
Fiscal Year 2015: 49%
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Senator Polnut
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« Reply #141 on: June 15, 2012, 12:49:33 am »
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Would this be a workable amendment?

Quote
Income Taxes             
 by tax bracket                 
 9.5K-35K     13% 10%
 35K-80K      24% 22%
 80K-170K    28%
 170K-368K  35%
 368K-1M     40%

 1M-2.5M
Fiscal Year 2012: 48%
Fiscal Year 2013: 46%
Fiscal Year 2014: 44%

 2.5M+
Fiscal Year 2012: 57%
Fiscal Year 2013: 54%
Fiscal Year 2014: 51%
Fiscal Year 2015: 49%

I'd be good to get some work on revenue derived from this option, I could see myself supporting this, or something like it.
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« Reply #142 on: June 15, 2012, 01:00:15 am »
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I can't support those upper-end tax increases... I understand the desire, but no, can't support that at all.
Would you support a trading/transaction tax then?
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« Reply #143 on: June 15, 2012, 01:23:46 am »
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Would this be a workable amendment?

Quote
Income Taxes             
 by tax bracket                 
 9.5K-35K     13% 10%
 35K-80K      24% 22%
 80K-170K    28%
 170K-368K  35%
 368K-1M     40%

 1M-2.5M
Fiscal Year 2012: 48%
Fiscal Year 2013: 46%
Fiscal Year 2014: 44%

 2.5M+
Fiscal Year 2012: 57%
Fiscal Year 2013: 54%
Fiscal Year 2014: 51%
Fiscal Year 2015: 49%

If you have a flat tax, changes in rates over time are not too hard to figure, but with a graduated tax, it can get very complicated  Undecided.  I tend to think it makes sense to reduce it as much as you think you can now, and then let future governments do with it what they will - since more likely than not they will change anyway.

What is the reason behind waiting to reduce the rates anyway?  That's the opposite of what I would expect if you are going for a countercyclical policy.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #144 on: June 15, 2012, 05:29:46 pm »
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You know when you offer an amendment then proceed to change it two or three times, you kind of are telling me the equivalent of telling a dog to sit and come here at the same time. If you are deliberating texts with a working draft that changes based on the discussion, refrain from using the word "amendment" until you are finished. Tongue Otherwise I have to treat them all as individual amendments. Tongue
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« Reply #145 on: June 15, 2012, 05:31:42 pm »
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Sorry, Yankee.  I have not proposed an amendment, yet.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #146 on: June 15, 2012, 05:36:26 pm »
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Your phrasing is fine since you used the word "would" in ahead of the word "amendment". Technicalities! Tongue
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« Reply #147 on: June 16, 2012, 10:33:04 pm »
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Also, you can't put in tax reductions/changes for later years in a budget for this year, or at very least they won't be binding.
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Senator JCL and the geologist
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« Reply #148 on: June 16, 2012, 10:51:41 pm »
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As the great American Senator Dick Lugar would say...

Why not a flat tax? Wink

 One of the things I agree with both Lugar and the VP.
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Senator Polnut
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« Reply #149 on: June 17, 2012, 03:47:13 am »
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As the great American Senator Dick Lugar would say...

Why not a flat tax? Wink

 One of the things I agree with both Lugar and the VP.

not while I have breath in my body and the strength to sign a pen Tongue
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