Iran: Discovery will collapse Christianity

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/iran-discovery-will-collapse-christianity/

In Chapter 41 of the Barnabas Gospel, Basij claims, is this statement: “God has hidden himself as Archangel Michael ran them (Adam and Eve) out of heaven, (and) when Adam turned, he noticed that at top of the gateway to heaven, it was written ‘La elah ela Allah, Mohamad rasool Allah,’” meaning Allah is the only God and Mohammad his prophet.

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I hear the deans of religious studies within many US colleges are jealous of this discovery.

[afleitch]

Wait, you get your news from WND?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Wait, you get your news from WND?

no, Drudge. 

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

A dubious claim. Specifically I'd like to know what their evidence for this portion is:

This version of the Barnabas Gospel was written in the 5th or 6th century and it predicted the coming of the Prophet Mohammad and the religion of Islam, the Basij Press claims.

Even in the unlikely event it did turn out to be authentic, it wouldn't phase Christianity for the most part - most Christians would just ignore it.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Wait, you get your news from WND?

And don't dis WND, for rumor has it it was Drew Zahn of WND who fed the jmfcst info of Palin’s plane rides 10 hours before she was announced as McCain's VP pick.  Without Drew Zhan of WND, the jmfcst wouldn’t hold the title for the biggest news scoop in Forum history.  And without that title, the jmfcst would have been banned long ago.

So, be thankful for WND, it is very important in keeping the civility of this Forum.

[True Federalist]

While the Gospel of Barnabas does give an avenue of insight into the Islamic view of Jesus about the earliest date that could be ascribed to it, even without considering the mentions of Mohammed, is of the time of Mohammed because of other things mentioned in the text.  There is no credible reason for anyone to take it as an authentic text written by Barnabas.

http://aina.org/news/2012022916569.htm

However, beyond that, as the link points out above, the copy of the text in question is a pitiful forgery probably fabricated in the 21st century and certainly no earlier than the 19th, so it isn't even as old as the known authentic copies of that work.

[Progressive Realist]

Christianity is collapsing under the weight of Logic and Reason.

[asexual trans victimologist]

If Christianity collapses it's its own fault. Not logic's or reason's or Islam's and certainly not the government of Iran's.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Christianity is collapsing under the weight of Logic and Reason.

Then why is it that all these "experts" and "scholars", who spend their whole lives forming arguments against Christianity, are batting 0.000?

confusing times, eh?

[BushKenya]

Christianity is collapsing under the weight of Logic and Reason.

Then why is it that all these "experts" and "scholars", who spend their whole lives forming arguments against Christianity, are batting 0.000?

confusing times, eh?

Exactly, a baseball player who strikes out all 4 times he is at the plate in a game can in no way claim he helped his team win.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Exactly, a baseball player who strikes out all 4 times he is at the plate in a game can in no way claim he helped his team win.

what if he also pitched a no hitter?

(...you're not really helping me in this argument.)

[BushKenya]

Exactly, a baseball player who strikes out all 4 times he is at the plate in a game can in no way claim he helped his team win.

what if he also pitched a no hitter?

(...you're not really helping me in this argument.)

We're talking an American League hitter.

(...I'm trying my best)

[King]

But what if he made a diving defensive play which prevented runs from scoring.  Can scholars only be DHs? What is significant about strikeouts?  Wouldn't an 0-4 in groundouts be just as useless9

[BushKenya]

But what if he made a diving defensive play which prevented runs from scoring.  Can scholars only be DHs? What is significant about strikeouts?  Wouldn't an 0-4 in groundouts be just as useless9

Now, we're overthinking this.

Your honor, I rest my case...

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Exactly, a baseball player who strikes out all 4 times he is at the plate in a game can in no way claim he helped his team win.

what if he also pitched a no hitter?

(...you're not really helping me in this argument.)

We're talking an American League hitter.

(...I'm trying my best)

dude admit it, you're just a Steve Bartman who screws his own team. 

[BushKenya]

Exactly, a baseball player who strikes out all 4 times he is at the plate in a game can in no way claim he helped his team win.

what if he also pitched a no hitter?

(...you're not really helping me in this argument.)

We're talking an American League hitter.

(...I'm trying my best)

dude admit it, you're just a Steve Bartman who screws his own team. 

No, I am a Neil O'Donnell who is color-blind and can't recognize his own team's colors!

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

No, I am a Neil O'Donnell who is color-blind and can't recognize his own team's colors!

yeah, but in your case, you didn't have a big black wide burly Charles Haley rushing you.

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

Christianity is collapsing under the weight of Logic and Reason.

Then why is it that all these "experts" and "scholars", who spend their whole lives forming arguments against Christianity, are batting 0.000?

confusing times, eh?

You once again seem to be confusing the dumb people you link from sensationalist news articles with every expert or scholar who argues against Christianity.

Also, considering the growing atheist movement and the fact that, by your own admission, the western world seems to be falling away from Christianity, can you really say it's 0.000?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

You once again seem to be confusing the dumb people you link from sensationalist news articles with every expert or scholar who argues against Christianity.

you of all people should know that every numbskull expert and/ scholar referenced on this board over the last ten years, whether by me (rarely) or someone else (usually the case), has been exposed as being an empty suit.

But, if you know of an expert or scholar whose logic you think can't be exposed as either being pure conjecture or contrary to evidence, then PLEASE PLEASE name them and bring forth their theories, for you are more than aware I believe a mere Christian novice with no formal training can come off the bench out of a stone cold coma armed with only reason and a bible and without foreknowledge of these scholars point of view, and wipe the floor with the worthless credentials of these so called experts.

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Also, considering the growing atheist movement and the fact that, by your own admission, the western world seems to be falling away from Christianity, can you really say it's 0.000?

The falling away of Christianity that is occurring, as prophesied to happen just prior to the reign of the AntiChrist, has to do with the increase of sin, not the fact that arguments against Christianity have increased in validity. 

[Progressive Realist]

Christianity is collapsing under the weight of Logic and Reason.

Then why is it that all these "experts" and "scholars", who spend their whole lives forming arguments against Christianity, are batting 0.000?

confusing times, eh?

I am a Christian, pal. I was trolling you.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Christianity is collapsing under the weight of Logic and Reason.

Then why is it that all these "experts" and "scholars", who spend their whole lives forming arguments against Christianity, are batting 0.000?

confusing times, eh?

I am a Christian, pal. I was trolling you.

trolling the jmfcst will get you shot at, shot up, and shot down.

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

You once again seem to be confusing the dumb people you link from sensationalist news articles with every expert or scholar who argues against Christianity.

you of all people should know that every numbskull expert and/ scholar referenced on this board over the last ten years, whether by me (rarely) or someone else (usually the case), has been exposed as being an empty suit.

Read the bolded part again.

But, if you know of an expert or scholar whose logic you think can't be exposed as either being pure conjecture or contrary to evidence, then PLEASE PLEASE name them and bring forth their theories, for you are more than aware I believe a mere Christian novice with no formal training can come off the bench out of a stone cold coma armed with only reason and a bible and without foreknowledge of these scholars point of view, and wipe the floor with the worthless credentials of these so called experts.

And when you find some actual evidence that points out Christianity is true, do let us know. The best arguments against Christianity are the ones that point out the fact that it's completely indemonstrable and as such its claims can't be distinguished from fiction or delusion.

Also, considering the growing atheist movement and the fact that, by your own admission, the western world seems to be falling away from Christianity, can you really say it's 0.000?

The falling away of Christianity that is occurring, as prophesied to happen just prior to the reign of the AntiChrist, has to do with the increase of sin, not the fact that arguments against Christianity have increased in validity.

You know most of the other atheists I know are former Christians, many of them fundamentalists and evangelicals. Usually the reason they give for not believing any more is that when they looked at things through the light of reason by using logic and evidence they found that they could no longer rationally defend their beliefs.

Christians have been claiming that the end is nigh and the world is falling into sin, that this or that is a portent of what was prophesized in the good book, etc. ever since there have been Christians. Can you give me one good reason to think that you and your ilk are actually right this time?

[The Mikado]

Jmf, by that logic, wouldn't that make a hypothetical revival/upswing in Christianity a bad thing from your perspective because it's putting off the Second Coming? 

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

link from sensationalist news articles

Read the bolded part again.

Which sensationalist news articles would that be?  Are you attempting to use this thread as an excuse to claim everything discussed on this board in the last 10 years has been from “sensationalist news articles”?  If so, keep in mind the last 10 years have seen every popular argument represented and dismantled.

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And when you find some actual evidence that points out Christianity is true, do let us know.

So, you’re admitting that after 10 years, with the entire realm of the Intelligentsia at our finger tips, you’ll haven’t seen a single argument to discount Christianity?  In fact, their arguments are so weak, you’ve seen them dismantled effortlessly by Christians novices who have no credentials.  What a surprise.

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The best arguments against Christianity are the ones that point out the fact that it's completely indemonstrable and as such its claims can't be distinguished from fiction or delusion.

What are you talking about?  You just admitted that for 10 years it has been demonstrated to you that the world with all its knowledge, has not been able to lay a finger on Christianity.

You claim evidence in support of Christianity is lacking, but you haven’t told me what evidence is suppose to be.  For if Christianity were true, what evidence is lacking that you think should be present?  Did the NT claim proof of Jesus’ resurrection would be physically evident to the whole world?

The fact remains that given what the NT claims, in its historicity and in its teachings, the world we see and the history we know is in complete agreement. 

Example: The NT historicity claims match what we know about the 1st Century world, including the spread of Christianity as detailed in the book of Acts.  In fact, given what we know about the history of the 1st Century, the claims of Christianity are entirely plausible.

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Also, just take a look at how the figures of the bible were in such close contact with the world’s rulers.  Some examples: Joseph and Moses mingled with the upper echelon of Egypt…Daniel mingled with Babylon’s Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar and Persia’s Cyrus and Darius (father of Xerxes)…some of the Jews would return to Jerusalem, but many did not, which allowed the OT to retain a foothold throughout Europe and Asia and Africa…then Alexander the Great would conquer the Holy Land and prepare the way for the bible to be translated into an international language in preparation for a universal message the Messiah would give to the whole world…the Romans would then conquer the Holy Land and finalize clearing the path for that upcoming message…Jesus would stand before the Jewish Sanhedrin and Pontus Pilate and Herod Antipas…Paul would stand before the Sanhedrin, Felix, Festus, Agrippa, and Emperor Nero…and now the Gospel has been preached to every nation, just as the OT and NT predicted…and so on and so forth.

And all of this dovetails completely with the prophecy given around 4000 years ago to Abraham that God would make his seed the salt of the earth: “All nations will be blessed through you”…

The storyline of the bible doesn’t take place in a dark corner, rather the storyline takes place right out in front of the greatest powers of those times and touches the highest authorities of those nations.  And it overlays from what we know from secular sources.

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You know most of the other atheists I know are former Christians, many of them fundamentalists and evangelicals. Usually the reason they give for not believing any more is that when they looked at things through the light of reason by using logic and evidence they found that they could no longer rationally defend their beliefs.

Oh, good, you found some expert scholars, from the inside, who can discredit Christianity with their theories.  Please tell us what their theories are.

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Christians have been claiming that the end is nigh and the world is falling into sin, that this or that is a portent of what was prophesized in the good book, etc. ever since there have been Christians. Can you give me one good reason to think that you and your ilk are actually right this time?

The important thing is what the bible states, not what post-NT Christians claim. But, I have given you no year or even a decade, much less a date.  I’m simply saying that:

1)   We are seeing a great falling away from Christianity unequalled in its nearly 2000 year history that aligns with the NT prophesied falling away.
2)   The world now has the technology to carry out the events spoken about in the bible during the very last days (the whole world coming under one government, the whole world being immediately aware of world events, the whole world being under a common economic system, the ability to destroy a world superpower in a single hour, etc, etc, etc.).
3)   Technology is making the tiny nation of Israel’s existence more and more precarious as its enemies are armed with WMD.  (Not to mention that Israel’s coming back into existence just 64 years ago is a huge fulfillment of prophesy and is the ONLY nation in world history to reconstitute itself after such a long hiatus.)

Now, it is possible the current situation outlined in points 1-3 could continue to get worse and worse over the next 200 years…but I highly doubt the trend can continue for that long.  I would think the next 50 years, maybe much sooner, will bring the matter to a head, especially in the case of Israel. 

So, not only are things trending to fulfill prophesy, but the trend (despite random noise) is accelerating.  More importantly, the trend is unsustainable given the fact the technology genie is out of the bottle and can not be put back.

[True Federalist]

then Alexander the Great would conquer the Holy Land and prepare the way for the bible to be translated into an international language in preparation for a universal message the Messiah would give to the whole world

Dude, there was no need for an Alexandrine conquest to do that.  At the time of Alexander, Aramaic was already an international language with at least as great a scope in usage as Greek, just centered further to the east.