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| | |-+  Scottish Independence Referendum - 2014
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Author Topic: Scottish Independence Referendum - 2014  (Read 13940 times)
afleitch
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« on: May 25, 2012, 06:07:05 am »
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I hope Al won't object to this going up early, however today the 'Yes' campaign launched;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-18162832

One fun facts (or why oil still matters :p) to pad it out.

Scotland's GDP 2010/11 (£millions)

Excluding North Sea Oil - 119,149
Including Per Capita Share (Scotland's entitlement as % of UK) - 121,732
Including Geographical Share - 144,820

From The Grauniad
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politicus
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2012, 09:22:55 am »
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Best of luck!
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2012, 01:12:28 pm »

It's going to be a ridiculously long campaign, so it makes sense to have a thread early, yeah.

On the subject of the launch, though I might be completely wrong about this is it really such a clever idea to kick off a campaign on an issue like this with glitzy parade in the company of a gaggle of Professional Scotsmen Who Now Live Abroad Because Taxes Are Lower There? I would tend to suggest that appeals to post-imperial Scottish civic nationalism and to specific grievances (whether 'accurate' or not) would be more effective than saccharine platitudes.
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afleitch
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2012, 04:20:54 pm »
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It's going to be a ridiculously long campaign, so it makes sense to have a thread early, yeah.

On the subject of the launch, though I might be completely wrong about this is it really such a clever idea to kick off a campaign on an issue like this with glitzy parade in the company of a gaggle of Professional Scotsmen Who Now Live Abroad Because Taxes Are Lower There? I would tend to suggest that appeals to post-imperial Scottish civic nationalism and to specific grievances (whether 'accurate' or not) would be more effective than saccharine platitudes.

I think for a launch it went off okay. The idea was to ensure that it didn't look like a Salmond-centric event. Patrick Harvie has been pressing the flesh on the national media for example and I expect Margo (health permitting) and Canavan to do likewise. It came off quite fresh and most importantly, neutral. It will always be the easist launch of the two campaigns and it will be interesting to see what a Labour-Tory-Lib Dem campaign launch will look like (because it has to be co-ordinated). It can't be 'London' driven, it can't be too Scottish Establishment either.

If it can get people signed up and get donations rolling in then it's a sucess. It was always going to be crafted as an underdog campaign; it's what Salmond thrives on. If it can be seen as a groundwell of public support, even if it's feigned it will do very well against a party-political-business campaign from the pro-union side.
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2012, 04:48:14 pm »
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Just seen the coverage of the Yes event on News at 10.

Eugh, smug First Minister is smug.
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2012, 01:32:56 am »
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Best of luck!

^^^^^

I think you Scottish should center your campaign on British History with emphasis on the imperialism years, that will undoubtedly win the yes campaign votes Tongue 
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2012, 01:35:40 am »
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Of course, Scotland was no less imperialist than England.
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2012, 03:32:31 am »
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Of course, Scotland was no less imperialist than England.

Exactly, there is a reason Glasgow was known as the second city of the British empire.
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politicus
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2012, 03:36:59 am »
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Best of luck!

^^^^^

I think you Scottish should center your campaign on British History with emphasis on the imperialism years, that will undoubtedly win the yes campaign votes Tongue 
Scotland mainly joined England in 1707 because the Scottish elite could see, that the English had a good thing going with their emerging world empire and wanted in on it. The Scottish participation in all things imperial was generally much bigger than their share of the British population and the independence movement didnt really develop until the Empire was gone. One interpretation of modern Scottish nationalism is, that once the Empire was gone the Scots lost their main reason to stay in the union.
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"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

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"While I am a great believer in the free enterprise system and all that it entails, I am an even stronger believer in the right of our people to live in a clean and pollution-free environment."

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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2012, 03:53:02 pm »
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So, the referendum is set for 2014, or is this just talk?

I would love to see Scotland go independent and join the Nordosphere.
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2012, 04:36:14 pm »
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Lookin' good for the Unionists so far. Sock it to Salmond.
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2012, 06:34:30 pm »
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Yeah, I'm a fan of independent countries actually being...you know...independent.




Waiting for the heads to explode...
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2012, 06:39:59 pm »
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As someone who would like for Labour to one day win an election again, I oppose this.
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2012, 07:02:28 pm »
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Yeah, I'm a fan of independent countries actually being...you know...independent.

You clearly understand this issue.
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The Kingfish
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2012, 07:19:21 pm »
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If Cameron wants Scotland to stay in the union, he should publicly endorse independence.
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afleitch
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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2012, 08:45:44 am »
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Just to note, I have signed up for the 'Yes' campaign. Long winded explanation to follow...
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politicus
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2012, 08:51:08 am »
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Just to note, I have signed up for the 'Yes' campaign. Long winded explanation to follow...
FF
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"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

Winston Churchill

"While I am a great believer in the free enterprise system and all that it entails, I am an even stronger believer in the right of our people to live in a clean and pollution-free environment."

Barry Goldwater

The way 90% of Atlas threads end up:
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2012, 09:49:27 am »
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If I were Cameron I'd go camping out in Scotland, visiting as many places as possible in support of "no," maybe drag Clegg up with me and Thatcher too if she still has enough wits with her.
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politicus
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« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2012, 09:53:15 am »
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If I were Cameron I'd go camping out in Scotland, visiting as many places as possible in support of "no," maybe drag Clegg up with me and Thatcher too if she still has enough wits with her.
English Tories campaigning would be poison for the Scottish unionist side. And Thatcher was hated in Scotland and still is by many.
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"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

Winston Churchill

"While I am a great believer in the free enterprise system and all that it entails, I am an even stronger believer in the right of our people to live in a clean and pollution-free environment."

Barry Goldwater

The way 90% of Atlas threads end up:
Carlos Danger
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« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2012, 10:03:51 am »
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If I were Cameron I'd go camping out in Scotland, visiting as many places as possible in support of "no," maybe drag Clegg up with me and Thatcher too if she still has enough wits with her.
English Tories campaigning would be poison for the Scottish unionist side. And Thatcher was hated in Scotland and still is by many.

(That's the point...)
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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2012, 10:07:36 am »

Most politicians, even most Tory politicians, aren't nearly that sociopathic.
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2012, 10:10:59 am »
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If I were Cameron I'd go camping out in Scotland, visiting as many places as possible in support of "no," maybe drag Clegg up with me and Thatcher too if she still has enough wits with her.
English Tories campaigning would be poison for the Scottish unionist side. And Thatcher was hated in Scotland and still is by many.
(That's the point...)
OK, but not that clear since you are a conservative yourself. Using a smiley or three ... afterwards would be helpful when you are being sarcastic about your own side. Otherwise it just looks like ignorance.
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"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

Winston Churchill

"While I am a great believer in the free enterprise system and all that it entails, I am an even stronger believer in the right of our people to live in a clean and pollution-free environment."

Barry Goldwater

The way 90% of Atlas threads end up:
The Mikado
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2012, 10:12:45 am »
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If I were Cameron I'd go camping out in Scotland, visiting as many places as possible in support of "no," maybe drag Clegg up with me and Thatcher too if she still has enough wits with her.
English Tories campaigning would be poison for the Scottish unionist side. And Thatcher was hated in Scotland and still is by many.
(That's the point...)
OK, but not that clear since you are a conservative yourself. Using a smiley or three ... afterwards would be helpful when you are being sarcastic about your own side. Otherwise it just looks like ignorance.

He's not joking...He's saying that the Tories would love for Scotland to secede because it would give them a near-permanent majority in Parliament.
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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2012, 10:17:17 am »
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If I were Cameron I'd go camping out in Scotland, visiting as many places as possible in support of "no," maybe drag Clegg up with me and Thatcher too if she still has enough wits with her.
English Tories campaigning would be poison for the Scottish unionist side. And Thatcher was hated in Scotland and still is by many.
(That's the point...)
OK, but not that clear since you are a conservative yourself. Using a smiley or three ... afterwards would be helpful when you are being sarcastic about your own side. Otherwise it just looks like ignorance.

He's not joking...He's saying that the Tories would love for Scotland to secede because it would give them a near-permanent majority in Parliament.

Not that they would love that... they should.  (I'm also actually skeptical of all "permanent majority" hypotheses, I suspect English Labour would shift rightwards enough to make it marginal again, but there might be a "permanent majority" for an election or two before they do so.).
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politicus
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« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2012, 10:17:58 am »
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If I were Cameron I'd go camping out in Scotland, visiting as many places as possible in support of "no," maybe drag Clegg up with me and Thatcher too if she still has enough wits with her.
English Tories campaigning would be poison for the Scottish unionist side. And Thatcher was hated in Scotland and still is by many.
(That's the point...)
OK, but not that clear since you are a conservative yourself. Using a smiley or three ... afterwards would be helpful when you are being sarcastic about your own side. Otherwise it just looks like ignorance.

He's not joking...He's saying that the Tories would love for Scotland to secede because it would give them a near-permanent majority in Parliament.
Thats true. But it shows that you Americans dont really understand British Tories. Supporting unionism is part of their core identity and only a few extremists would want to see Scotland go.
Its still called the Conservative and Unionist Party after all Smiley

Edit: Okay I see that Wormguy got it. Just Mikados interpretation that was wrong.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 10:20:32 am by fascistbeijingregime »Logged

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

Winston Churchill

"While I am a great believer in the free enterprise system and all that it entails, I am an even stronger believer in the right of our people to live in a clean and pollution-free environment."

Barry Goldwater

The way 90% of Atlas threads end up:
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