Please Point Out

[Gabu]

Gabu, you have a point, but the AFDNC hasn't really admitted to having any problems - that's why people keep attacking them.

I will certainly admit that the AFDNC maybe could have more in response to the GirlGoneWild incident, but what you bring up is exactly the reason why I think that everything would be better if we had no political parties.  I haven't commited voter fraud.  Defarge hasn't committed voter fraud.  True Democrat hasn't committed voter fraud.  Nym90 hasn't committed voter fraud.

Yet, somehow, just out of the virtue of being in the same party as someone who did, people are acting as if we're all guilty of it.  I just don't get it.  Why are we completely incapable of talking about this issue without smearing so many people who are absolutely 100% innocent?  Why can we not see that it was IrishDemocrat, not the AFDNC as a collective blob, who did this act?

I'm becoming more and more drawn to the idea that people like Keystone Phil keep beating this issue to death over and over purely because they want to hurt innocent members of the AFDNC by implicitly associating them with something in which they had no part whatsoever, not because those people actually want to solve anything.  There are countless numbers of methods one could go about this without involving the AFDNC as a whole that treat this as what it is - an isolated event committed by an individual - but time and again no one even considers those methods.

As I have said in the past, parties seem to be nothing more than a means to enable oneself to tie up a bunch of innocent people into one neat little bundle where they can all be attacked at the same time for something that they're completely innocent of.  I, for one, am disgusted by it.

[Keystone Phil]

Gabu, you have a point, but the AFDNC hasn't really admitted to having any problems - that's why people keep attacking them.

I'm becoming more and more drawn to the idea that people like Keystone Phil keep beating this issue to death over and over purely because they want to hurt innocent members of the AFDNC by implicitly associating them with something in which they had no part whatsoever, not because those people actually want to solve anything.  There are countless numbers of methods one could go about this without involving the AFDNC as a whole that treat this as what it is - an isolated event committed by an individual - but time and again no one even considers those methods.

I keep "beating" this issue because I am angry about it and don't want it to happen again. People need to be reminded. Plus, members within your party knew about this. What would happen if IrishDem just kept running and no one said a word?

[Gustaf]

Gabu, I understand your sentiments. But, if someone said "yeah, pther Nazis did horrific things, but I didn't, I shouldn't get painted with the same brush" we'd all think it ridiculous. This is a long way from that of course, but if you choose to associate yourself with a party that's tainted you're indicating your support or at least indifference towards the behaviour and actions BOTH of that party and of its membership in general. I think you're a great guy and a fine senator, and there are other Democrats I think are great as well. The issue is with the party as it looks now, and if you choose to align yourself with it, then you're also choosing to take part of the blame.

I thought it was Harry or Akno, though it could be Harry and Alcon, might have the names mixed up, who knew about the fraud, I think it was two days before it became public.

[Nym90]

Alcon and Harry were both informed of it by IrishDem, and immediately told him that they would reveal it if he didn't. He did then reveal it publically. So I don't see how you can hold that against them.

So again, I just don't see what they did wrong.

[Akno21]

This is getting to be like Vietnam was for the last real election, an old issue that both sides feel strongly about and wounded from.

[Keystone Phil]

Alcon and Harry were both informed of it by IrishDem, and immediately told him that they would reveal it if he didn't. He did then reveal it publically. So I don't see how you can hold that against them.

So again, I just don't see what they did wrong.

There were people who knew about it earlier than that and Akno has been lying about not knowing about this before IrishDem's announcement.

[Akno21]

Alcon and Harry were both informed of it by IrishDem, and immediately told him that they would reveal it if he didn't. He did then reveal it publically. So I don't see how you can hold that against them.

So again, I just don't see what they did wrong.

There were people who knew about it earlier than that and Akno has been lying about not knowing about this before IrishDem's announcement.

I did not know, I had heard a rumor. There is a big difference there, Phil.

[Keystone Phil]

Alcon and Harry were both informed of it by IrishDem, and immediately told him that they would reveal it if he didn't. He did then reveal it publically. So I don't see how you can hold that against them.

So again, I just don't see what they did wrong.

There were people who knew about it earlier than that and Akno has been lying about not knowing about this before IrishDem's announcement.

I did not know, I had heard a rumor. There is a big difference there, Phil.

You were the campaign manager and had no idea this was going on yet others did? Alittle odd.

[Jake]

Phil drop it.  You were right before, but it doesn't mean you're right now.  I will take the AFDNC at its word and believe that they didn't know about it.  Akno is 99% innocent in my mind, with only a shread of doubt, drop it.

[Keystone Phil]

Phil drop it.  You were right before, but it doesn't mean you're right now.  I will take the AFDNC at its word and believe that they didn't know about it.  Akno is 99% innocent in my mind, with only a shread of doubt, drop it.

A current member of the Democratic party has told me that he is about 98% sure that Akno was involved.

[Keystone Phil]

Phil drop it.  You were right before, but it doesn't mean you're right now.  I will take the AFDNC at its word and believe that they didn't know about it.  Akno is 99% innocent in my mind, with only a shread of doubt, drop it.

A current member of the Democratic party has told me that he is about 98% sure that Akno was involved.

My gut tells me he isn't.  Let your source step forward and give some evidence. Then it will be in the open.

I'll try to see if the person will comment on the forum about it. Someone knowing about that stuff and not doing anything to stop it should not be elected.

[Peter]

If people must continue to harp on about it then I demand that you put your money where your mouth is. Go to Dave and ask for an IP check.

[WiseGuy]

Wiseguy (FL) - Total of 7 fantasy posts since registering on Dec 14th, though not very active elsewhere.

 

At the convention at the end of the month I will call upon the AFRNC to vote to expell these inactive party members from the AFRNC and I call on the AFDNC to do the same. If these "deadwood" members feel the need to return to fantasy politics than they may re-register but until then they should not be a part of a fantasy party.

 

I would like to be able to come to my defense, if you all would be so kind.  First, as you can plainly see in my profile, I have logged on to the board almost every day since I registered, but have not been posting because I did not see anything that I thought I should comment on, either because of inexperience or because I thought another poster had already made the points that I would have made.  I also have not been posting recently because of schoolwork.  Secondly, I have not missed any election that I am aware of, if so, please tell me which one.  I think that extenuating circumstances should be taken into account, and some specific criteria established for determining whether or not a member is inactive, instead of basing it on arbitrary standards regarding how often someone should post.  I respectfully request that my name be removed from the inactive list.  Thank you.

[WiseGuy]

I would also like to add that I agree these are important problems which should be addressed, but I think that the consequences of wrongfully labeling members as inactive or accusing them of tomato-souping, trolling, etc., should be seriously considered before officially posting any names or lists -- especially when this is something that could ruin a person's reputation before they even get a chance to get started in fantasy politics..

[Peter]

This listing is in no way binding, has no official status and is simply the result of personal research that I carried out because I saw that people were clearly wanting it. The standards imposed are/were my own; They were uniformly applied, but it is so long ago that I've lost the piece of paper where I had them written down.

Consider first of all that the list was made on 19th January; According to your profile you had posted a sum total of 5 times in the New Year at that point with your last piece of fantasy activity on Boxing Day. i.e. You hadn't posted anything fantasy based for 25 days. I do not label people as inactive in the forum at large, and in fact I never labelled you as inactive but rather "not very active", which given your posting record is hardly much of a quantum leap. I certainly never accused anybody of trolling or tomatosouping, though other people did make inferences about one particular listed person in Red Button.

I hardly think that this list attacks anybody on it, and I certainly don't mean to tar anybody's character, but it is a very clear defence against the problem of Tomato souping or even outright new member invention (neither of which do I believe are applicable in your case).

As for your school work, you should definitely let that be your priority over this, since this is only a game after all.

You should be aware that a law presently before the Senate, which is widely expected to pass, will mean that you must post 25 times between each federal election (i.e. every 2 months) to be considered as "active" under the Constitution. This requirement has nothing to do with me, but will in fact be administered by the Secretary of Forum Affairs.

[WiseGuy]

At the convention at the end of the month I will call upon the AFRNC to vote to expell these inactive party members from the AFRNC and I call on the AFDNC to do the same. If these "deadwood" members feel the need to return to fantasy politics than they may re-register but until then they should not be a part of a fantasy party.

Peter, thank you very much for the quick reply.  I do realize that the list is a couple of weeks old, but it was unclear which members were being referred to as inactive "deadwood,"  so I assumed Colin meant the entire list would be expelled.

I appreciate the reassurance that you are not accusing me of any wrongdoing.  My name showed up unexpectedly on this topic, and it kinda freaked me out.  Sorry if I came across the wrong way.  I don't have any hard feelings toward any of you (I hope that no one will hold any against me, either.)

I would also like to read more about this bill that you mentioned.  What is the title of the thread? 

Respectfully, WiseGuy

[NHPolitico]

NHPolitico (NH) - Rather inactive since the beginning of December; Its been a while since he was active here.

I was just burned out a bit. I'm back now.