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| |-+  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: TexasGurl, Torie, Vice President PiT)
| | |-+  Public employee union membership in Wisconsin has crashed in the last year
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Author Topic: Public employee union membership in Wisconsin has crashed in the last year  (Read 6972 times)
Torie
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« on: June 02, 2012, 04:23:48 pm »

Yes, by about 55% or something so this article says. Sure some of that may be due to layoffs, but per another article on this from the WSJ, it appears that the bulk of it was due to the law change that members needed to agree that their dues would be deducted from their paychecks. With that change, it appears that a majority of the members (or close to it) said no, we don't want our paychecks docked for dues, and in the case of one union, it then proceeded to kick those members out.

It is not surprising that both sides view the Wisconsin recall as ground zero. This is a potential game changer. One poll says 55% of Wisconsin voters now agree with Walker's union reforms. At stake is one of the Democrats' major, if not the major, sources of funds.

California will have a somewhat similar initiative on the ballot this November in essence. Dues can't be used for political campaigns without the permission of the member.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 04:31:21 pm by Torie »Logged
krazen1211
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2012, 04:26:06 pm »
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Union successfully smashed. Next.


The next battleground is in California.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304821304577438452821346064.html


The showdown in San Jose (pop. 958,789), California's third most-populous city and the 10th-biggest in the U.S., has its roots in the late 1990s when California lawmakers expanded benefits for workers in the state-run pension plan. To keep up with nearby cities during the dot-com boom, San Jose sweetened its offerings. Police and firefighters got the largest retirement benefits, which climbed to as much as 90% of a worker's highest salary, excluding overtime, before retirement, up from 75%.



Well that was quite stupid.
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Beet
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2012, 05:41:38 pm »
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Ah, yes. Further weakening of workers' rights and increased dependence of politics on corporate money is just what we need. The slump to parliamentarian plutocracy accelerates.
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But everything was fine when Bush spent $250 million of taxpayer money for pro war propaganda on all the media for a $2 trillion war that created ISIS?
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TheReporter
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2012, 08:00:04 pm »
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Ah, yes. Further weakening of workers' rights and increased dependence of politics on corporate money is just what we need. The slump to parliamentarian plutocracy accelerates.

The world is becoming globalized, but cosmopolitanism is being hijacked by the Davos Man. What choice is left besides nationalism? The thought is terrifying, to be honest.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2012, 08:01:11 pm »
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All part of the plan, of course.
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2012, 08:40:08 pm »
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I read this in the WSJ the other day. Definitely made me feel a little uneasy. The Democrats are already far enough to the right.

I guess we had better get used to Andrew Cuomo & Friends, since they're clearly going to be the future of the Democratic Party.
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2012, 08:42:42 pm »
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I read this in the WSJ the other day. Definitely made me feel a little uneasy. The Democrats are already far enough to the right.

I guess we had better get used to Andrew Cuomo & Friends, since they're clearly going to be the future of the Democratic Party.

Then I might as well be D-NY.
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The world is becoming globalized, but cosmopolitanism is being hijacked by the Davos Man. What choice is left besides nationalism? The thought is terrifying, to be honest.

I just hope Trump doesn't turn into some kind of Berlusconi-esque Teflon man.
TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2012, 09:03:17 pm »
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Hopefully the country won't go down the toilet too much over the next 8 years so I can leave the decrepit ship of state before it sinks. I'm thinking Canada.

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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2012, 09:11:25 pm »
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Neoliberalism is the most dangerous political movement since National Socialism.
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Lief 🐋
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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2012, 09:56:40 pm »
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Neoliberalism is the most dangerous political movement since National Socialism.

At least National Socialism made it comically obvious that it was evil and dangerous.
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2012, 10:01:03 pm »
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Neoliberalism is the most dangerous political movement since National Socialism.

Um...why?
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LastVoter
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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2012, 10:40:34 pm »
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Neoliberalism is the most dangerous political movement since National Socialism.

Um...why?
It's more effective at making poor even poorer when compared to your normal free-market.
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NVGonzalez
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2012, 10:46:10 pm »
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Divide and conquer. Success.
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2012, 11:02:58 pm »
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I read this in the WSJ the other day. Definitely made me feel a little uneasy. The Democrats are already far enough to the right.

I guess we had better get used to Andrew Cuomo & Friends, since they're clearly going to be the future of the Democratic Party.

Then I might as well be D-NY.

Except you're not socially liberal.
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Yeah, after four years of being a non-disruptive poster on the forum, never considered a troublemaker, even someone who was liked well enough to be elected Atlasian President, Napoleon should be allowed to stay.


dead0man
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2012, 11:29:34 pm »
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Unions overreached and have now had their hands slapped by the people....lets see how they react.  Defensive and angry like the posters in this thread is my guess.  You can't expect people like that to learn from their mistakes.


(now comes the part where they try and explain that excessive retirement benefits aren't overreaching or mistakes...oh and insults, always insults)
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They say here "all roads lead to Mishnory." To be sure, if you turn your back on Mishnory and walk away from it, you are still on the Mishnory road. To oppose vulgarity is inevitably to be vulgar. You must go somewhere else; you must have another goal; then you walk in a different road.
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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2012, 12:02:48 am »
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Ah, yes. Further weakening of workers' rights and increased dependence of politics on corporate money is just what we need. The slump to parliamentarian plutocracy accelerates.

Weakening workers rights?  How so when the workers were given a new right to vote?

"it appears that a majority of the members (or close to it) said no, we don't want our paychecks docked for dues"
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LastVoter
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« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2012, 12:47:03 am »
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So approximately the number of Republicans(40%) in the Unions decided to vote this way. That will probably change once they lose their union benefits.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2012, 12:53:47 am »
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Ah, yes. Further weakening of workers' rights and increased dependence of politics on corporate money is just what we need. The slump to parliamentarian plutocracy accelerates.

Workers still have the right to unionize.
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Beet
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« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2012, 01:55:18 am »
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Ah, yes. Further weakening of workers' rights and increased dependence of politics on corporate money is just what we need. The slump to parliamentarian plutocracy accelerates.

Workers still have the right to unionize.

lol. A right that exists only on paper and is eviscerated by reality. Not that the pre-Walker status quo provided unions with enough to even sustain themselves in most instances.

Ah, yes. Further weakening of workers' rights and increased dependence of politics on corporate money is just what we need. The slump to parliamentarian plutocracy accelerates.

Weakening workers rights?  How so when the workers were given a new right to vote?

"it appears that a majority of the members (or close to it) said no, we don't want our paychecks docked for dues"

What right to vote? Vote for what?

Unionism depends on collective action. Of course no individual will choose to make the sacrifices necessary to bargain collectively by themselves. It doesn't make sense. That is the whole premise behind unionism.

But ah, they still have the 'right to unionize', without the right to effectively act collectively, without the money to defend their power. That is like saying you have the right to vote freedom of speech, on the condition that your larynx is surgically removed.
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« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2012, 02:29:01 am »

     With their prodigious tendency to waste taxpayer dollars, public sector unions are better off in the junk heap of history. Would that they'd hasten thither.
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Beet
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« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2012, 02:32:54 am »
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     With their prodigious tendency to waste taxpayer dollars, public sector unions are better off in the junk heap of history. Would that they'd hasten thither.

Strong unions are necessary to keep the stratifying effects of capitalism in check. And since private sector unions have already historically expired, if public sector unions followed then that would be the end of it altogether.
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But everything was fine when Bush spent $250 million of taxpayer money for pro war propaganda on all the media for a $2 trillion war that created ISIS?
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dead0man
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« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2012, 03:11:23 am »
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While I agree in general with Beet here (shocking everyone) in that strong unions are an excellent check against sh**tty working conditions, strong unions are their own worst enemy.  They don't care about the repercusions of their actions, they don't care about corruption inside their own organizations and the people in charge don't even care about their own members.  I certainly don't want unions to die, I think they have their place in a free market system, but they need to be restrained less they kill the golden goose and make toilets out of the eggs.
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To oppose something is to maintain it.
They say here "all roads lead to Mishnory." To be sure, if you turn your back on Mishnory and walk away from it, you are still on the Mishnory road. To oppose vulgarity is inevitably to be vulgar. You must go somewhere else; you must have another goal; then you walk in a different road.
― Ursula K. Le Guin, The Left Hand of Darkness
Beet
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« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2012, 03:21:35 am »
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While I agree in general with Beet here (shocking everyone) in that strong unions are an excellent check against sh**tty working conditions, strong unions are their own worst enemy.  They don't care about the repercusions of their actions, they don't care about corruption inside their own organizations and the people in charge don't even care about their own members.  I certainly don't want unions to die, I think they have their place in a free market system, but they need to be restrained less they kill the golden goose and make toilets out of the eggs.

No, corporations are the unions' worst enemy. You say you think strong unions are a check and have a place, but a 55% fall in membership in one year isn't restraint; it's disembowelment. Actually, I was pretty complacent about Walkerism until seeing this article Torie posted. I haven't always been the friendliest to unionism myself in the past. But this is shocking.

And all this is considering, as I said, unionism is already dead in the private sector. It's already dead in the south. Pretty much the only place it's still alive is in states like Wisconsin and in the public sector. And now, Walker will most likely win the recall leaving the unions totally eviscerated. The Democrats in the future will turn to the Koch Brothers to fund their campaigns.
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But everything was fine when Bush spent $250 million of taxpayer money for pro war propaganda on all the media for a $2 trillion war that created ISIS?
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politicus
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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2012, 03:39:56 am »
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Ah, yes. Further weakening of workers' rights and increased dependence of politics on corporate money is just what we need. The slump to parliamentarian plutocracy accelerates.

Workers still have the right to unionize.
Its seems that this right is rather theoretical for most US workers in the private sector given the way corporations treat people trying to organize.
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dead0man
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« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2012, 04:04:56 am »
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No, corporations are the unions' worst enemy. You say you think strong unions are a check and have a place, but a 55% fall in membership in one year isn't restraint; it's disembowelment. Actually, I was pretty complacent about Walkerism until seeing this article Torie posted. I haven't always been the friendliest to unionism myself in the past. But this is shocking.

And all this is considering, as I said, unionism is already dead in the private sector. It's already dead in the south. Pretty much the only place it's still alive is in states like Wisconsin and in the public sector. And now, Walker will most likely win the recall leaving the unions totally eviscerated. The Democrats in the future will turn to the Koch Brothers to fund their campaigns.
Unions are still strong (for now) in the North East no?  Still kind of strong in the rust belt (what's left of it).  The teachers unions are still strongish nationally.  If the people still felt the unions were serving them this sh**t wouldn't pass, but the unions have burned any and all the good will they had by constantly doing things the people find heinous.  The jokes about lazy union members didn't come out of a board room of a Fortune 500 company, they came from people observing lazy unions members.  The jokes about corruption and ties to organized crime didn't come from a guy in a suit, they came because unions have historically been corrupt and had ties to organized crime.
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To oppose something is to maintain it.
They say here "all roads lead to Mishnory." To be sure, if you turn your back on Mishnory and walk away from it, you are still on the Mishnory road. To oppose vulgarity is inevitably to be vulgar. You must go somewhere else; you must have another goal; then you walk in a different road.
― Ursula K. Le Guin, The Left Hand of Darkness
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