BRTD's opinion of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal?

[© Tweed the Younger]

I like subjecting him to the intersections between his impassioned likes and dislikes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charismatic_Renewal


I'm getting back into reading the Randall Balmer book, his travelogue of American evangelicalism, Mine Eyes Have Seen the Glory:  A Journey into the Evangelical Subculture in America.  it was assigned reading for a class I took a few semesters back, but I didn't get to far into in until the past few days.  one of the chapters is about a newly (or then-newly, was written in 1990) Episcopal church in Georgia, whose pastor and much of the congregation had serious roots in pentecostal/Assembly of God, but were expelled after the pastor started flirting with 'high-church' theology.  so the chapter entertained more broadly the whole issue of blending emotionalism/charismatic with the liturgical.

[So the Heroes Fall]

It's kind of like those liberal Catholic groups that pop up every now and then to make a fuss about how they don't endorse pedophilia or the Pope's positions on women, contraceptions and gays, that's all fine and all, but no one is forcing you to stay in the organization run by these people. Though they seem to be actually backed by the hierarchy, which means I can't endorse them, even though I'd rather attend one of their Masses than a standard one.

Mostly I couldn't ever be OK going to any church that doesn't ordain women, it's just so un-scene and entirely in contradiction of all the values that I dedicated myself to at my first show.

[Harry]

... Catholics who oppose pedophilia "pop up every now and then"  ?

[Progressive Realist]

it's just so un-scene

And that is all that matters.

[Simfan34]

it's just so un-scene

And that is all that matters.

What does that even mean?

I am disinclined towards charismaticism in general, even in our church I'm not too crazy when we sing the peppy songs written after 1980 and the major scale responses ("We prroclaaaaim your death oooo Lorddd..."). I've never been to a Latin mass, but I've been to a long Orthodox one; didn't understand a word but it was just amazing. I was in church when we sang a great song and I wondered why it was so good. I looked at the date- 1494- "ah, that's why". (It was O Filli et Filliae, if anyone asks)

[TJ in Wisco]

I agree Simfan on the music. I wish they'd throw out pretty much all of the music written since 1900. Sorry Marty Haugen your music isn't that good. It's just boring and doesn't really show the sort of hunger, for lack of a better word, the situation calls for. I do prefer the English translations of the old Latin hymns to the original Latin for the most part but both can coexist.

My church in Cleveland likes to pull out the occasional Gregorian chant, particularly during Lent, and they tend to be very good songs. There's a reason we kept them around for 800 years. Unfortunately they also mix in some awful contemporary songs. I remember one Sunday they had Attende Domine (one of my favorite religious songs) at Communion and their recessional hymn was Somebody's Knockin' At Your Door. Really? I mean, that one has hand motions. I have to fight back the urge to laugh at the fact that we're actually singing it.

That being said, I've been to Latin Mass before and I'm rather convinced restoring that everywhere's not the answer either.

[Simfan34]

Well, I speak Latin, so maybe I'm biased. But what were we singing the other week? It was something secular. I mean, we're Catholics, not Unitarians.

[Insula Dei]

Nowadays one is happy when they somehow manage to produce an Adeste Fideles.

[So the Heroes Fall]

... Catholics who oppose pedophilia "pop up every now and then"  ?

I'm referring moreso to organized groups and whatnot to say that. Here's an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_the_Faithful

In this case I suppose it's a bit more justifiable, though obviously we don't need any organizations to tell us that most Catholics don't support pedophilia. But ones that go on campaigning over things like reproductive rights (like the recent backlash the birth control mandate deal) and gay rights are pretty pointless, it's pretty obvious the Catholic hierarchy isn't going to listen. This is akin to being a Republican who protests the far right's takeover but still votes Republican always and donates to them. The only way to truly protest the Catholic church is to vote with your feet (and wallet). Quit going and quit donating. The Catholic church is not a democratic organization and can't be changed through democratic means or grassroots activism, which really is fine because it's an entirely voluntarily organization of association. If you don't like what it preaches, quit going, just as a liberal in the Southern Baptist Convention likely will, or conservative fundie-leaning types brought up in a more liberal mainline denomination leave all the time.

[Simfan34]

Nowadays one is happy when they somehow manage to produce an Adeste Fideles.

The first hymn I learnt!

[CathKhan]

I agree Simfan on the music. I wish they'd throw out pretty much all of the music written since 1900. Sorry Marty Haugen your music isn't that good. It's just boring and doesn't really show the sort of hunger, for lack of a better word, the situation calls for. I do prefer the English translations of the old Latin hymns to the original Latin for the most part but both can coexist.

My church in Cleveland likes to pull out the occasional Gregorian chant, particularly during Lent, and they tend to be very good songs. There's a reason we kept them around for 800 years. Unfortunately they also mix in some awful contemporary songs. I remember one Sunday they had Attende Domine (one of my favorite religious songs) at Communion and their recessional hymn was Somebody's Knockin' At Your Door. Really? I mean, that one has hand motions. I have to fight back the urge to laugh at the fact that we're actually singing it.

That being said, I've been to Latin Mass before and I'm rather convinced restoring that everywhere's not the answer either.

I'd have to agree with what's being said here, though I'm not familiar with Gregorian chants and stuff written in the 1490's. Yes, I've sung "Somebody's Knockin' at Your Door" and enjoyed it. In 4th grade. My Dad was the organist for my church and yes he played it, for the elementary kids. He himself preferred older music, and loved working in minor key (so I'm told. I wouldn't have known back then). Nowadays? The organist we have now is into all this crap written from around the 2000's and a couple of decades earlier and that's it. Plus, he loves major key. There's "Go Make a Difference" which has people clapping and sh**t and I always think "We're Catholics. We don't sway to our music." But no one ever listens to my private thoughts. There is some good stuff I appreciate, but I myself don't often pay attention to the year something's made. I'll have to investigate a church with more old fashioned tastes to see what y'all are talking about. I've had enough of this enthusiastic, lovey dovey music.

And of course, this needs mention:

it's just so un-scene

And that is all that matters.

and maybe this too:

... Catholics who oppose pedophilia "pop up every now and then"  ?

[So the Heroes Fall]

And of course, this needs mention:

it's just so un-scene

There's a classic example of taking things out of context. I was referring to egalitarianism toward women. To attend a church that doesn't treat women as equals and allow them to hold all positions open to men to me would be like going to a venue that refused to book women or denied them admission. It TOTALLY contradicts all the values of my scene, which is not just the music I listen to. When I was 16 it became my effective reason for being in my lifestyle. It is the basis of my politics as well and my values. Just as I made new by Jesus Christ, 12 years ago I was made new by the scene. There is an essential system of values and morals attached to this that I'm not going to contradict. So yes, egalitarianism vs. complentarianism is a deal breaker litmus test issue for me. I can't say I can blame my mom for mostly feeling the same way, being a woman and all too...BTW a woman preached at and led the service I was just at a few hours ago, something that I know didn't happen in any Catholic church.

But as for the peripheral point:

The excuse always runs something like "I'M NOT PART OF YOUR SCENE IT'S JUST THE MUSIC I LISTEN TO!" Then please keep it tuned to one-o-four-point-mall because your couch-assed ideas are giving the me the kind of headache that only a friend can. if you think that this is a about endrhyme or past time then I apologize for bothering you, I'll gladly leave you to your shopping mall-sh!t toothed grin-easy f[Inks]ng listening-dr pepper-convenience store-taco bell subculture