Italy 2013: The official thread

[jaichind]

Looks like for now the Berlusconi bloc will continue to support the government so no new elections.

[RogueBeaver]

Berlusconi said he isn't quitting and is committed to relaunching Forza Italia. Full FB statement here. Anything interesting in it, Italian-speakers?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Yeah but the ban from public office hasn't been finalized yet and the statute of limitations will probably run out before they settle on that.

Berlusconi said he isn't quitting and is committed to relaunching Forza Italia.

Oh for crying out loud.

[jaichind]

Former PM Berlusconi’s lead over Democratic Party and its allies widens to 5.5 pps vs 4.4 pps last week, Trieste, Italy-based SWG pollster says in survey distributed by e-mail.
 
•Support for parties led by Berlusconi during Feb. election rose to 37.8% vs 35.7% last week:
•Support for PD and its allies during Feb. election at 32.3% vs 31.3% last week:
•Beppe Grillo’s Five Star Movement at 18.2% vs 20% last week:
•Former PM Monti’s centrist party and allies at 5.6% vs 6.4% last week:
•NOTE: Poll conducted July 30-Aug. 1 on 1,500 intws •

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Italian politics in the Second Republic has got to be some sort of sick cosmic joke. There's just no way it's not.

[minionofmidas]

Italian politics in the Second Republic has got to be some sort of sick cosmic joke. There's just no way it's not.

I like that word 'cosmic', it's just the way that people tend to use it that offends my sense of survival.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah but the ban from public office hasn't been finalized yet and the statute of limitations will probably run out before they settle on that.

Berlusconi said he isn't quitting and is committed to relaunching Forza Italia.

Oh for crying out loud.

If I understand correctly, the statute of limitation should not be relevant because the verdict has been pronounced once and for all; it is only the sentence that has to be redefined.

Of course, even a public office ban doesn't mean that Italian politics are finally free from Berlusconi. But it's still, by all measure, a good day for Italy.

[RogueBeaver]

Alfano has told Berlusconi all the PDL ministers are ready to resign if needed, and Berlusconi said he's ready for a new election.

[jaichind]

Alfano has told Berlusconi all the PDL ministers are ready to resign if needed, and Berlusconi said he's ready for a new election.

Well, the scenerio Berlusconi is most likely waiting for is first PDL will Ask for Pardon for Berlusconi, Letta says no, and then PDL quits making it look like it is the PD and allies at fault for bring down this national grand coalition government and then run on that in the election.

[Antonio the Sixth]

PdL will officially ask Napolitano for pardon, probably threatening to make the government fall. If he does, he will make it official that there is no justice in this county.

[jaichind]

Berlusconi party MPs resign to protest conviction: report
Aug. 2 (AFP) -- Lawmakers from Silvio Berlusconi's People of Freedom Party (PDL) tendered their resignation from Italy's parliament Friday to protest the tax fraud conviction against their leader, media reported.
News outlets in Italy reported that the MPs handed in their resignation to protest the landmark ruling against Berlusconi, who said after meeting them in Rome that his party was prepared to contest fresh polls.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Cultists are weird.

[Rocky Rockefeller]

Berlusconi party MPs resign to protest conviction: report
Aug. 2 (AFP) -- Lawmakers from Silvio Berlusconi's People of Freedom Party (PDL) tendered their resignation from Italy's parliament Friday to protest the tax fraud conviction against their leader, media reported.
News outlets in Italy reported that the MPs handed in their resignation to protest the landmark ruling against Berlusconi, who said after meeting them in Rome that his party was prepared to contest fresh polls.

Why would PDL members give up their careers for Berlusconi? It just seems stupid.

[jaichind]

Berlusconi party MPs resign to protest conviction: report
Aug. 2 (AFP) -- Lawmakers from Silvio Berlusconi's People of Freedom Party (PDL) tendered their resignation from Italy's parliament Friday to protest the tax fraud conviction against their leader, media reported.
News outlets in Italy reported that the MPs handed in their resignation to protest the landmark ruling against Berlusconi, who said after meeting them in Rome that his party was prepared to contest fresh polls.

Because they believe, with reason, that they will be reelected with a larger share of the vote than back in Feb 2013 riding the oppressed political oppisition narrative.  They are ahead in the polls now so why not.
Why would PDL members give up their careers for Berlusconi? It just seems stupid.

[Rocky Rockefeller]

Berlusconi party MPs resign to protest conviction: report
Aug. 2 (AFP) -- Lawmakers from Silvio Berlusconi's People of Freedom Party (PDL) tendered their resignation from Italy's parliament Friday to protest the tax fraud conviction against their leader, media reported.
News outlets in Italy reported that the MPs handed in their resignation to protest the landmark ruling against Berlusconi, who said after meeting them in Rome that his party was prepared to contest fresh polls.

Why would PDL members give up their careers for Berlusconi? It just seems stupid.

Because they believe, with reason, that they will be reelected with a larger share of the vote than back in Feb 2013 riding the oppressed political opposition narrative.  They are ahead in the polls now so why not.

Yeah, I suppose but I still wouldn't risk it. It's not like Berlusconi could be the only capable center-right leader out there.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

What is the actual likelihood of a pardon? (I know Napolitano is considered principled, but how principled is Napolitano considered?)

[minionofmidas]

Berlusconi party MPs resign to protest conviction: report
Aug. 2 (AFP) -- Lawmakers from Silvio Berlusconi's People of Freedom Party (PDL) tendered their resignation from Italy's parliament Friday to protest the tax fraud conviction against their leader, media reported.
News outlets in Italy reported that the MPs handed in their resignation to protest the landmark ruling against Berlusconi, who said after meeting them in Rome that his party was prepared to contest fresh polls.

Why would PDL members give up their careers for Berlusconi? It just seems stupid.

He owns their careers, he can do whatever he wants with them.

He also knows where their family live and pays their bodyguards, of course, so little danger of treason. They know the price.

[jaichind]

Berlusconi will work to be the Kakuei Tanaka of Italy by handing power to his daughter Marina Berlusconi but rule in the background assuming the Berlusconi's bloc wins the next election.

[Antonio the Sixth]

What is the actual likelihood of a pardon? (I know Napolitano is considered principled, but how principled is Napolitano considered?)

Napolitano certainly has principle, but he has shown some willingness to compromise them for "the good of the country" before. Still, I have a hard time imagining he could go that far. He literally can't find any other serious justification for pardon other than PdL's blackmail, and he would lose all the respect that most Italians had for him. I can't guarantee that there is no wishful thinking in my analysis though.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Berlusconi will work to be the Kakuei Tanaka of Italy by handing power to his daughter Marina Berlusconi but rule in the background assuming the Berlusconi's bloc wins the next election.

That is an insult to Tanaka, and this is Tanaka I'm saying that about.

[jaichind]

Berlusconi will work to be the Kakuei Tanaka of Italy by handing power to his daughter Marina Berlusconi but rule in the background assuming the Berlusconi's bloc wins the next election.

That is an insult to Tanaka, and this is Tanaka I'm saying that about.

I would agree with you if we are talking about the personal lives of Berlusconi and Tanaka.   But in terms public life and corruption I would find Tanaka worse.  Berlusconi before 1994 mostly made his money fair and square.  Sure, there were various scams after 1994 but it has more to do with Berlusconi trying to increase his influence than him reaping economic gains.  Tanaka built a political machine starting in the 1950s and it was all based on corrupt deals based on the construction industry.  When Tanaka was nabbed in 1976 over the Lockheed scandal most people in the know believed Tanaka when he said he did not remember the details of the $3 million bribe because there so many deals where the Tanaka machine was on the take going on at the same time it was too hard for him to keep track.

[Antonio the Sixth]

PdL is about to hold a demonstration, in half an hour.

Jaichind, even Berlusconi's activities pre-1994 were marred with corruption and malpractices of all sorts. In fact, it's almost certain the reason why he jumped into politics was in order to escape from the inquiries that were drawing closer and closer.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Before '94 Berlusconi had a political protector, a PSI politician from Milan who's surname had five letters in it, one of which was an 'x'...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Before '94 Berlusconi had a political protector, a PSI politician from Milan who's surname had five letters in it, one of which was an 'x'...

Yeah, Craxi saved his ass a couple times, notably by legalizing his illegal TV broadcasting activities ex post facto, back in 1984.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Shortly before he fled to Tunisia, it's known that he actually gave Berlusconi some advice on how to go about becoming his own personal political protector.