Italy 2013: The official thread

[You kip if you want to...]

If Renzi's what it takes to fix this...

[Keystone Phil]

No, there have been a bunch of other polls:

SWG, March 8: Left 28.1%, M5S 27%, Right 26.2%, Centre 10.4%

Ispo, March 7: Left 29.8%, M5S 28.7%, Right 27.4%, Centre 9.8%

Piepoli, March 6: Left 29.5%, Right 29.5%, M5S 26.5%, Centre 9%

Ipsos, March 5: Left 29.6%, M5S 29.4%, Right 29.2%, Centre 10%

Lorien, March 3: Left 31.9%, Right 31%, M5S 28.5%, Centre 5.6%

Wow. With those numbers, I'd say the center-right would win. Or maybe even M5S as the top party. The center-left over polls and with the race already this close...

[RogueBeaver]

I'd say it would like Greece's 2nd round last June. Close but no cigar. Even if Berlusconi or Grillo won the Camera they wouldn't have a Senate majority. That said I certainly don't want Bersani leading PD into the next election.

[RogueBeaver]

Renzi: I'm ready to be a primary and PM candidate. So he's announced his candidacy for a race that hasn't formally opened yet. Bersani's probably hitting the roof.

http://espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio/renzi-io-sono-pronto/2202395

[Andrea]

Tomorrow the 2 Chambers will sit for the first time.

The Senate sitting will be presided by 93 year old Emilio Colombo. I guess they may be slower than the Conclave in electing their Speaker.

[Tender Branson]

No, there have been a bunch of other polls:

SWG, March 8: Left 28.1%, M5S 27%, Right 26.2%, Centre 10.4%

Ispo, March 7: Left 29.8%, M5S 28.7%, Right 27.4%, Centre 9.8%

Piepoli, March 6: Left 29.5%, Right 29.5%, M5S 26.5%, Centre 9%

Ipsos, March 5: Left 29.6%, M5S 29.4%, Right 29.2%, Centre 10%

Lorien, March 3: Left 31.9%, Right 31%, M5S 28.5%, Centre 5.6%

I feel really sorry for the Italians.

60% for the troll/clown 1.0 and the troll/clown 2.0 and another 30% for an inept Left.

[RogueBeaver]

The speakers won't be elected till Monday earliest since M5S is not supporting the PD nominees. 2/3 for the first 5 ballots, simple majority after. So that means PDL will have to vote for the PD nominee if they want this over with quickly.

http://www.gazzettadelsud.it/news/english/38537/M5S-says-no-Speakers-deal--Bersani-still-open-to-talks.html

[Antonio the Sixth]

Today was the first day of the new Parliament. In the speaker elections for both houses, M5S voted for their candidates and everybody else abstained. Still no idea where we're going.

[Keystone Phil]

Today was the first day of the new Parliament. In the speaker elections for both houses, M5S voted for their candidates and everybody else abstained. Still no idea where we're going.

So...how exactly does this "work?" Without leaders in each chamber, how is there even a government?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Today was the first day of the new Parliament. In the speaker elections for both houses, M5S voted for their candidates and everybody else abstained. Still no idea where we're going.

So...how exactly does this "work?" Without leaders in each chamber, how is there even a government?

There won't be. They'll keep voting on it until there we get Presidents.

[Keystone Phil]

Today was the first day of the new Parliament. In the speaker elections for both houses, M5S voted for their candidates and everybody else abstained. Still no idea where we're going.

So...how exactly does this "work?" Without leaders in each chamber, how is there even a government?

There won't be. They'll keep voting on it until there we get Presidents.

...except everyone else decided to abstain and it was the first damn vote. Or was that just done to symbolically say, "We hate this situation" and then get serious during the second vote?

How long do you think until they say nothing can be established and Napolitano appoints another technocratic government?

[Antonio the Sixth]

It was obviously a symbolic gesture. Do you think all the parties are going to keep abstaining at every ballot? That's silly. They already have started negotiating behind the scenes.

Obviously, nothing guarantees that negotiations will succeed.

[Keystone Phil]

It was obviously a symbolic gesture. Do you think all the parties are going to keep abstaining at every ballot? That's silly. They already have started negotiating behind the scenes.

Obviously, nothing guarantees that negotiations will succeed.

Hey, they're negotiating so I thought a symbolic gesture like that on the very first ballot by both parties might not be necessary. Not that a solution was expected already but I expected each side to at least cast some votes for their preferred leaders.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It was obviously a symbolic gesture. Do you think all the parties are going to keep abstaining at every ballot? That's silly. They already have started negotiating behind the scenes.

Obviously, nothing guarantees that negotiations will succeed.

Hey, they're negotiating so I thought a symbolic gesture like that on the very first ballot by both parties might not be necessary. Not that a solution was expected already but I expected each side to at least cast some votes for their preferred leaders.

What was the point though? If each party voted for their candidate in the Senate, the result would have been exactly the same. In the House, it would actually have been counterproductive, since it would have led to the election of a PD guy and thus deprive the PD of a strong bargaining position.

[RogueBeaver]

Reports on Twitter that PD is negotiating with Monti and Lega. Given Berlusconi's recent declarations, one wonders if he at least yellow-lighted this approach to his junior partner.

[Keystone Phil]

Reports on Twitter that PD is negotiating with Monti and Lega. Given Berlusconi's recent declarations, one wonders if he at least yellow-lighted this approach to his junior partner.

...and Lega? What? Talk about desperation. And how does PD justify that?

[Antonio the Sixth]

We need new elections. As soon as possible.

[RogueBeaver]

Phil: "We need speakers to start the symbolic government formation negotiations, after which we will elect Amato President and dissolve Parliament." Also some speculation that Bersani will want immediate dissolution to avoid a primary, though a) probably not happening b) wouldn't get away with it.

Antonio: No dissent here.

[SPQR]

Today we will get presidents for both Chambers,one way or another.

[RogueBeaver]

PD candidate Laura Boldrini has been elected Camera Speaker. Now for the Senate.

Napolitano has asked Monti to stay till the process is complete, as we predicted. Over Monti's objections- he wanted to be Senate Speaker.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/16/us-italy-vote-idUSBRE92F06Y20130316

[SPQR]

Run-off in the Senate between PD's Grasso and PdL's Schifani.

Grasso was the chief  "Anti-Mafia" attorney,while Schifani has been under process for links with mafia.



Not all parties are equal...

[SPQR]

Grasso is the new Senate Speaker.

137-117 vs Schifani,around 50 blank votes.
A few members of M5S voted for Grasso,in particular the Sicilian ones,who said "if Schifani wins,we can't go back home".

[RogueBeaver]

So now formal talks can begin on Wednesday.

[RodPresident]

How would be an election with Renzi, Grillo and Meloni as standard bearers of their coalitions?

[RogueBeaver]

Who's Meloni? The last trial heat had Renzi boosting PD to a 7-point lead over M5S with PDL in third.