Italy 2013: The official thread

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Is there any chance, any remote possibility, of somehow inducing the M5S trolls to abstain?

[RogueBeaver]

Abstention counts as "nay" for confidence purposes in the Senate. So no. Berlusconi is technically offering grand coalition but his "price" is Alfano as DPM and a PdL-approved President, among other things. Not that Grand should be touched with a 100-foot pole. So I'm guessing Bersani will have to return his mandate shortly and we wait for the presidential election.

[Leftbehind]

Laura Boldrini <=> Julia Gillard, anyone ?

What's with the drop in Grillo support in the last two polls posted by jaichind ? He seemed to top the race a few days before that.

Probably the threat of markets etc spooking some PDL voters back?

I can't see any resemblance to Gillard.

[jaichind]

Day of reckoning as Bersani seeks to form Italian government

36 minutes to 6pm


Rome (DPA) -- Italian centre-left leader Pier Luigi Bersani was Thursday set to ask whether he can form a government after a weeks-long stalemate, in talks with President Giorgio Napolitano.
The outcome of the meeting, expected around 6 pm (1700 GMT), was uncertain.
Bersani won last month's elections by a whisker but failed to secure a majority in the upper house, the Senate. He has also not gained the support of other political forces.
Napolitano could allow Bersani to form a government anyway, exposing him to the risk of losing a confidence vote in parliament, or designate someone else as prime minister.
Italian media have suggested he could name a high-profile non-partisan figure to lead a a national unity government, which could pass some urgent reforms before fresh elections are held.
Bersani has refused striking a deal with conservatives led by former prime minister Silvio Berlusconi.
The third-largest group in parliament, protest party the Five Star Movement of comedian Beppe Grillo, does not want anything to do with the traditional political parties.
On his blog, Grillo said a new government was "not necessary."
He argued that the outgoing administration led by Mario Monti could stay on while parliament approves a new electoral law, measures to support crisis-hit businesses and other reforms.
Giuseppe Roma, the director of Italy's top research institute Censis, dismissed Grillo's suggestion as "pure folly" in comments to broadcaster SkyTG24.
The political uncertainty was rattling markets.
In morning trade, the yield spread between Italian and German 10-year bonds - a key indicator of risk in the eurozone - rose to 360 points, a six-month high, before dipping below 350 in the afternoon.
Italy has been in a recession since mid-2011 and is plagued with record youth unemployment.
The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development said that the Italian economy would shrink by 1 per cent on an annual basis in the second quarter of 2013.
On Wednesday, Bersani joked that only someone "insane" would want to be in government at this moment, while Monti said he "cannot wait" to hand over the reins to a new prime minister.
If the stalemate on the government cannot be resolved, new elections may be called.
But this cannot happen until parliament votes on a successor to Napolitano - whose term ends in May - forcing parties to strike a deal at least on this issue.
Latest opinion surveys have suggested that going back to the polls would produce a slim Berlusconi win or another hung parliament, unless the electoral law is changed.

[Keystone Phil]

Who is the PdL's chosen candidate for President anyway?

As long as this nonsense drags on, isn't it likely that Silvio benefits regardless of the electoral system? I know why his detractors are opposed to the idea of a grand coalition because it essentially allows him to control when the government collapses but wouldn't that be better, in their eyes, than totally handing over the reigns after a new election? It just seems like there aren't any viable alternatives left. They tried the clown route. It didn't work. What else?

[jaichind]

Napolitano Seeks Italy Government Solution as Bersani Fails

March 28 (Bloomberg) -- Italian President Giorgio Napolitano took charge of the search for the next prime minister after Pier Luigi Bersani failed to assemble a majority in the divided parliament.
The stalemate stems from “conditions I considered unacceptable” in the demands of rival lawmakers, Bersani said today after meeting Napolitano at the presidential palace in Rome. The president will consult political leaders tomorrow.
Napolitano, 87, must now find a leader capable of building consensus where Bersani, the 61-year-old head of the Democratic Party, came up empty. Policy differences accumulated during the Feb. 24-25 election campaign hurt Bersani’s ability to lure his main adversaries, Silvio Berlusconi and Beppe Grillo, into backing his candidacy.

[jaichind]

The best case for Berlusconi would be some patched up government based on Bersani and Grillo that soon falls apart leading to new elections.  I am pretty sure Berlusconi comes in with a majority in that case.

[RogueBeaver]

Now that Bersani's officially failed, I wonder how long his leadership can last. Doubtful the hacks and left abandon Bersani, so it wouldn't happen without a fight.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Now that Bersani's officially failed, I wonder how long his leadership can last. Doubtful the hacks and left abandon Bersani, so it wouldn't happen without a fight.

I think Bersani himself has given up. He's down-to-earth enough to realize nobody likes him.

[RogueBeaver]

Even if he has, the Bersanist wing will put up another candidate. They'll fight to the very end against a Renzi leadership.

[RogueBeaver]

PD says they'll accept a president's government, PdL and M5S say no. PdL demanding Grand Coalition and their presidential choice. Despite denials, apparently Berlusconi himself wanted the Quirinale. The mere idea of SB as President of the Republic makes me almost physically ill, quite possibly the biggest troll move thus far. Some speculation about Bersani being finished, plus a lot of new speculation about Renzi, who's returned to the national arena in recent days.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Give us these fycking new elections!

[Leftbehind]

Give us these fycking new elections!

I know, how long are they going to drag this out for? It was obvious on the night that there'd need to be be new elections; Bersani should've made nothing more than a polite attempt at forming a coalition and then announced that (predictable) failure and the need for new elections.

[Keystone Phil]

Give us these fycking new elections!

[RogueBeaver]

Apparently Napolitano is considering resigning early to move up the presidential election and a possible dissolution.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Apparently Napolitano is considering resigning early to move up the presidential election and a possible dissolution.

Hopefully...

[jaichind]

Berlusconi Increases Lead in SWG Poll of Italy Voting Intentions
By Andrew Frye and Chiara Vasarri
March 29 (Bloomberg) -- Pollster comments in statement distributed today by e-mail.
Former PM Silvio Berlusconi’s coalition gains to 32.5% as of March 29 from 30.2% a week earlier: SWG
Pier Luigi Bersani’s coalition rises to 29.6% from 29.4%: SWG
Beppe Grillo’s party falls to 24.8% from 26.9%: SWG
Florence Mayor Matteo Renzi, a Bersani ally, has trust of 55% of voters, ranking first among leaders: SWG
Bersani has trust of 30%; Grillo, 29%; Berlusconi, 26%; PM Mario Monti, 19%: SWG

How interesting Berlusconi has the least trust but leads voting intentions.

[Keystone Phil]

People want an end to the chaos. Berlusconi's lead, like it or not, makes perfect sense. This was all way too predictable.

[Antonio the Sixth]

People want an end to the chaos. Berlusconi's lead, like it or not, makes perfect sense. This was all way too predictable.

Oh, just shut up...

[Velasco]

People want an end to the chaos. Berlusconi's lead, like it or not, makes perfect sense. This was all way too predictable.

I'd say Berlusconi is a Master of Chaos. So yes, everything makes perfect (and absurd) sense.

[Keystone Phil]

People want an end to the chaos. Berlusconi's lead, like it or not, makes perfect sense. This was all way too predictable.

Oh, just shut up...

Oh, don't get like the other one around here. My statement wasn't meant as a talking point in favor of Silvio. You know he benefits in situations like these and saying as much shouldn't mean "OMG UR DEFENDING HIM!"

[Antonio the Sixth]

For someone who's so neutral and detached, you're just so eager to point out anything that in any way would favor Berlusconi in some way.

[RogueBeaver]

PD is seriously divided between Bersani and Renzi followers, or so I think the article says.

http://www.campanianotizie.com/politica/italia/57020-governo-in-direzione-pd-resa-conti-bersani-renzi.html

[Keystone Phil]

For someone who's so neutral and detached, you're just so eager to point out anything that in any way would favor Berlusconi in some way.

Anyone who isn't constantly whining about Berlusconi is a lackey in the eyes of his haters. You guys are as deranged as the people you rail against.

Anyway, don't derail the thread because of what you perceive to be Pro Silvio commentary/news. As far as I'm concerned, anyone should be able to make a praising post without your side fussing. This is basically 59 pages of Berlusconi bashing and that's fine but the second someone is seen as a fan, everything has to stop so the haters can throw a fit. Either let all (respectful) comments stand and carry on with business as usual or stop posting any kind of promotion/attack on the political figures.

[Gary J]

How about PD announcing that, as public spirited Italians wanting to keep Silvio Berlusconi out of power, they will vote to give a Grillo party minority government confidence and supply; without requiring any prior agreement on what the minority government would do.

That way PD can choose the timing of the next general election, by deciding when to withdraw support. The Grillo party should take the major blame for anything that goes wrong whilst they are in government, as well as no longer being a nice shiny anti-system party.

I do not know if this sort of idea would make any sense to Italians. Is there some Italian concept, like the idea in British politics that the Queen's government must be carried on (at least sufficiently to delay the next election for about six months)?