Italy 2013: The official thread

[Zanas]

It will never end... -______-'

[Zanas]

Could someone explain the views of Bersani and Renzi in a few words ? Lazy to wiki them, plus I trust more the people here than wikipedia for these kinds of things...

[Zanas]

I expect the M5S will have the same sort of deflating momentum as the Pirates are experiencing right now in Germany when the actual alection will approach. Otherwise, it will in any case be fun to watch

[Zanas]

A trend begins with two however, no ?

And, to respond to all of you asking, yes, Berlusconi finally said he would give up for this election. In France it was in the news. Doesn't really mean we got rid of him ad vitam aeternam though...

[Zanas]

I fail to see how one wan force another to wear a tie... And I fail to see what it brings to one's political message... Wearing a tie is to me just a sign of gregarism...

[Zanas]

It seems the voters have reached more than 3 millions. What's it regarding what was expected ? Success, failure ? It is somehow very close to the turnout the Left open primaries had experienced last year here in France, and it had been characterized has somewhat of a popular success.

[Zanas]

Anyway, I don't see why suddenly the PD should be a leftist stronghold. When Veltroni and co transformed what existed into a new PD party, he emphasized on the fact that this would be a centre party, with centre and centre-left components, and that it would not group with other social-democrats in the European Parliament. By doing that, he killed what was left of the Italian left, which was once maybe the most powerful of the Occident world.

Since then, of course, the other social-democrats have also moved further to their right, and have ended forming a European Parliament group of socialists and democrats where the Italian PD has returned. But to see that now someone as Renzi would be looked down on because he's not enough of a leftist, whereas this party is not supposed to be left-wing in its own foundations, seems a bit odd to me. Of course it doesn't seem odd, I see what's going on, I'm just saying.

I think I might just endorse Renzi for the 2d round seeing what is said here.

[Zanas]

Quite a clever piece of electoral dishonesty. Might even work.

Why dishonesty?

= Pretending to be beyond left-right labels.

[Zanas]

You can say what you want but there is literally no way in hell Monti can be labelled as anything other than right-wing.

[Zanas]

Antonio, you know me, you know I'm on the left side of the Front de gauche here in France, but that I would never vote for the NPA, and besides I profoundly and utterly despise the PD. So I'll let you pick my vote : SEL or RC ? I would be leaning RC right now for just exactly the same reasons as Lewis (actually I was about to write a post pretty much like his own).

So what shall it be ? And justify it !

[Zanas]

Seconded : how good is this tracker ? It seems to be compiling a number of polls from various firms, but I don't if it can be trusted and to what extent.

Anyway, the today delivery is the following :


From that, and from what I can gather from watching the polls separately, there clearly seems to be a momentum towards RC, away from M5S (those two possibly partly connected), towards the right-wing coalition and away from Monti (those maybe not so connected), and pretty much stability for Bene comune.

Is that your feeling fellows ?

[Zanas]

SWG has the following today...

Italia. Bene Comune - 34.1%
Center-right - 26.6%
M5S - 17.2%
Con Monti per l'Italia - 12.8%
Rivoluzione Civile - 5.4%
Others - 3.9%

Are they a serious pollster?
In that case what made Grillo jump back up to those high levels after several polls showed them falling down to about 10-12%?

I think it's an outlier. He's been steady at around 12 give or take 2 for at least three weeks now.

[Zanas]

he just lost another bit of dignity and integrity (if he had any left).

Hint : he hadn't.

[Zanas]

Dear God.  Never thought he'd sink THIS low.  Though given who is it, I should have.

Hint : he already had sunk this low. And lower. For a long time now.

[Zanas]

To be absolutely fair with Berlusconi (never thought I'd say these words!) he did not exactly say that. He said racial laws was Mussolini's greatest fault but that he also did good things. Which, of course, remains horrifying, especially on Memorial Day.

Honestly, I have absolutely no idea what political impact it will have.

Hint : none whatsoever.

[Zanas]

This whole sh**t is so wrong. On all levels.

[Zanas]

Serious flooding in Catania. Any Italians want to weigh in on the impact this could have? The city and surrounding areas went pretty strongly for the center-right in 2006 and 2008.

Hopefully, some mafiosi will drown.

While I appreciate the fun potential of this post, I would gladly take info on the initial question by Phil, because it might be of a substantial importance. After all, this election is bound to be played at a 2-3% stake...

[Zanas]

Players can always score own goals of course...

[Zanas]

Laura Boldrini <=> Julia Gillard, anyone ?

What's with the drop in Grillo support in the last two polls posted by jaichind ? He seemed to top the race a few days before that.

[Zanas]

Meanwhile the newly appointed president of the Chamber is furious for a renowned Italian songwriter said that the Parliament is "full of sl*ts willing to do anything (to get power), they should open a brothel".

I didn't know Berlusconi was also a songwriter...

[Zanas]

Berlusconi is decent in English.

Maybe the only thing he is decent in...

[Zanas]

Renzi wants Prodi? And Renzi's still the face of the "new," reform side?

Yeah but you have to admit that no president elected that way can really be neither "new" nor "reform side"... So Prodi's the next best thing really.

[Zanas]

Let the countdown begin.

Six months? Or what do you guys think?

The thing to follow will be the polling curves. When PdL grows a 10 point lead, you can be sure Berslusconi's gonna pull the plug.

Well that won't happen as long as PdL is in a grand coalition. The only one who might get a 10-point lead in a near future will be Grillo.

PdL was in a grand coalition during the Monti government, and yet they went from a 15-point deficit to a tie.

Yes but only after they pulled the plug on Monti, and they were  only able to run against that goverment because they only supported it, not took part in it. It'll be harder to run against a goverment that they took part in.

You forget that voters are morons. Even moreso, it seems, Italian ones...

[Zanas]

Were all these councils PD-favored to begin with ? Because it seems odd that with the national polling going on and what we know of the situation the PdL wasn't able to gain a single one of all these. O_o'

[Zanas]

These are some wild vote transfer patterns ! Wow !