talking points that piss you off

[Antonio the Sixth]

There are so many that I don't know where to start.

[Antonio the Sixth]

"Homophobia is the same thing as racism"

Wait wait what ?

How is homophobia different than racism exactly ?

[Antonio the Sixth]

"Homophobia is the same thing as racism"

Wait wait what ?

How is homophobia different than racism exactly ?

Um, one is basically pre-judging or hating a race of people who just happen to be of a differently ethnicity. Another is a natural feeling of unease at abnormal sexual attractions.

To me, their are black people and white people. I don't recognize 'gay people' as a group, I recognize that certain people have abnormal sexual attractions, but that's doesn't make them a special group to me, no matter what the particular attraction may be.

There is nothing biologcally 'off' about people born of a different race, it is part of the identity. Abnormal sexual attraction is obviously biologically 'off' since it has no natural purpose. Therefore, feeling uncomfortable towards it is natural, and for alot of people probably would not fade with more exposure like racism.

"A natural feeling of unease" is not homophobia, as long as you keep your unease for yourself and don't translate it into hatred toward a category of people. In which case you are just a bigoted bastard morally equal to a racist.

[Antonio the Sixth]

8. Every single argument radical feminists use against transwomen.

Why would feminists be against transgenderism ?

[Antonio the Sixth]

8. Every single argument radical feminists use against transwomen.

Why would feminists be against transgenderism ?

Not all feminists, just the radical "kill all men" fringe - the arguments being that transwomen are somehow "appropriating" the female gender, they're not real women, they can never understand because they don't have uteruses, they're mentally ill etc.

There's been a spate of controversies recently due to some radfem events having "womyn-born-womyn only" policies to exclude transgenders specifically.

I'd say those aren't real feminist. If you believe in an essentialist conception of female identity you're eventually a defender of the patriarchal order.

[Antonio the Sixth]

South Africa is a better country now than in 1994

Global Warming

Cool! Now there's somebody we can talk to about all the talking points we hate, like "Black people are better off now than in 1964", "the 13th Amendment was a great idea", "Science is typically correct", things like that.

Whoa I'm not denying any of those things. But given the rise in AIDS, crime and corruption in SA since 1994, I find these rosy depictions of the rainbow nation gut-wrenching, as it seems to be going the way of Rhodesia. As for global warming I find the science behind it questionable, and often politically motivated.

You know what there hasn't been a rise in? Segregation. You know what else there hasn't been a rise in? Bantustans. Know what else? Forced removals. Know what else? Racist violence. Know what there has been a rise in? Multi-racial democratic elections.

As for global warming, what political motivation is there, asides from preventing more Democratic coastal states from flooding?

BritishDixie is pretty clearly a racist troll who think South Africa and "Rhodesia" (ROFL) were awesome countries a couple of decades ago.

[Antonio the Sixth]

While going through some complaints at work today, I fell across something which made me facepalm:

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"I am very concerned by the recent decision of the federal government to abandon the complete version of the census forms. Is this another means of hiding the perverse effect of the open doors immigration policy on the linguistic vitality of Francophone communities across the country? We fear that it is"

Dear Lord. TEH IMMIGRANTSZ ARE DESTROYING TEH COUNTRY AND TEH ZOMGZ FRENCH LINGUAGE!111

Why are European neo-Nazis so much more influential (from my point of view, at least) than the Americans? Golden Dawn, the National Front, the BNP, the Sweden Democrats; the American Nazi Party can't hold a candle to them.

The National Front, the BNP and the Sweden Democrats might be disgusting pieces of trash, but they are not, properly speaking, neo-nazis. There might not be any outright far-right party in America, but is the GOP's right-wing (Bachmann, Palin, Beck, etc) any less nutty than FN or BNP politicians ?

[Antonio the Sixth]

While going through some complaints at work today, I fell across something which made me facepalm:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

"I am very concerned by the recent decision of the federal government to abandon the complete version of the census forms. Is this another means of hiding the perverse effect of the open doors immigration policy on the linguistic vitality of Francophone communities across the country? We fear that it is"

Dear Lord. TEH IMMIGRANTSZ ARE DESTROYING TEH COUNTRY AND TEH ZOMGZ FRENCH LINGUAGE!111

Why are European neo-Nazis so much more influential (from my point of view, at least) than the Americans? Golden Dawn, the National Front, the BNP, the Sweden Democrats; the American Nazi Party can't hold a candle to them.

The National Front, the BNP and the Sweden Democrats might be disgusting pieces of trash, but they are not, properly speaking, neo-nazis. There might not be any outright far-right party in America, but is the GOP's right-wing (Bachmann, Palin, Beck, etc) any less nutty than FN or BNP politicians ?

Well said. Now can we get along condemning the far-left as well. Jean-Luc Melenchon and his ilk.

Not really, since Mélenchon isn't far-left under any meaningful definition. The French far-left polled 1.7% in last elections.

[Antonio the Sixth]

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Not really. Mélenchon certainly does not qualify as your standard orthodox marxist. As for Jaurès, he's an alleged source of inspiration for the French left as a whole.

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Not at all.

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That's a bit nutty, but overall no. The last part of the sentence shows that this is basically the traditional goal of Europe's radical-left parties.

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Pretty bland left-wing discourse, nothing really far-lefty.

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Traditional pipe dream of the French left. No People's Republic of France in sight, as you can see.

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Not in any way.

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Like in Italy and Switzerland, not exactly socialist countries.

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No.


Add to this that Mélenchon's true goal, like that of typical radical left parties in Europe (see the Danish socialists for example) is to influence their bigger center-left allies into taking more left-wing stances and to participate to the elaboration of government policy. Add the fact that he is a former PS cabinet minister. Add the fact that he is allied with the PCF, a fairly bland party made of established notables with no intent at playing the extremist card. Add to that that the actual far-left (LO and NPA) loathes him with a passion. So, in short, no, he's not far-left.

[Antonio the Sixth]

So he is a nutty leftist, just not a nutty far-leftist?

Basically. When you know actual French far-leftists, you can easily see the difference.

[Antonio the Sixth]

So he is a nutty leftist, just not a nutty far-leftist?

Basically. When you know actual French far-leftists, you can easily see the difference.

Yes but France is several notches to the left of almost every other developed western nation with the exception of the Scandinavian states. Although the difference is their political discourse seems competent, whereas in France it seems like half of their politicians are still stuck in the 1790's. Melenchon would be considered a far-leftist outside of France. Even the BBC, a bastion of liberal-leftism, calls him a far-leftist, as to other such bastions like the Guardian.

They also think Syriza's far-left, so they're not exactly the best judges. And France has had 2 left-wing Presidents since the war, hardly "several notches to the left of almost every other developed western nation".

France is the only Western country I can think of where opebo would be taken seriously and considered within the mainstream of political discourse.

I'm really impressed by your deep knowledge and perfect understanding of French politics.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Obviously this thread is a disaster, but with regards to France it should be pointed out that a certain disconnect between rhetoric and reality is a traditional (the most traditional?) feature of political language there. In any case, the existence of a formerly viable hard left political tradition does not make the entire country so inclined...

This is the soundest post made on this argument so far.