Will Obama explicitly argue GOP blocked recovery for political reasons?
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  Will Obama explicitly argue GOP blocked recovery for political reasons?
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Author Topic: Will Obama explicitly argue GOP blocked recovery for political reasons?  (Read 3119 times)
Bull Moose Base
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« on: June 07, 2012, 01:22:43 PM »
« edited: June 07, 2012, 01:26:45 PM by A dog on every car, a car in every elevator »

He should bluntly call it like it is but he's probably too cautious to do so.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/polls/191667-florida-poll-nearly-half-say-republicans-sabotaging-the-economy-to-hurt-obama

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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2012, 01:56:16 PM »

Well, Mitch McConnell has, so I don't see why Obama shouldn't.
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NHI
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2012, 02:19:30 PM »

He can't blame others for his own failures.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2012, 02:25:51 PM »

He can't blame others for his own failures.

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." --Mitch McConnell

The Republican Party is actively working against President Obama solely to pin the blame on him for the bad economy. If it weren't for them, we would have gotten a lot more done.
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Bull Moose Base
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2012, 02:34:26 PM »

He can't blame others for his own failures.

Nice slogan but you actually can blame lawmakers for failing to make laws.
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krazen1211
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2012, 03:04:12 PM »

He can argue whatever he wants. Actual reality shows heavily elevated government spending for his entire Presidency. To whine about budget 'austerity' or 'cuts' is to be a liar.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2012, 03:04:23 PM »

I hope so. I mean... uh, it's a fact, after all.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2012, 03:07:52 PM »

I think in the long run, it'd backfire, and make it look like he's refusing to take responsibility for his actions. Not saying he would be, but that's how many would see it, I think.
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WhyteRain
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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2012, 03:10:10 PM »


More evidence that we need to restore intelligence requirements for voters.
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argentarius
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2012, 03:37:41 PM »

He doesn't have to clearly, and if he did it would backfire.
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tpfkaw
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2012, 04:32:58 PM »

lol, push poll.
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morgieb
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2012, 04:38:09 PM »

Would probably backfire.
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Purch
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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2012, 04:54:46 PM »

To a certain extent. The argument personally wouldn't resonate with me because it only tells half the story of his successes/failures in the white house.

At the end of the day Clinton had to play hard ball with Repubs after they took both houses but still got policy done even though Newt went as far as shuting down the government. Then someone like Reagen personally called basically every democrat in congress to pursuade them to pass his budget. What people have to realize is if you propose a recovery bill the one that passes won't be the original vision you had of it, that's just the nature of modern politics everything faces oppositions and you have to sell it to get support for it. Look at Obamacare who did he sell that thousand page document to? He didn't sell it to the American people, he didn't sell it to Repubs who were questioning him about it and they didn't even sell it to the supreme court.  Yes partisanship exist but your job is to  sell your legislation, build a connection with the opposite party and play hard ball if neccesary but also to do whatever's necessary to get things done in Washington. Yes partisanship has gotten worse but nothing Obama has faced was any worse than what Clinton faced in the midst of the Republican Revolution when Newt was speaker.
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FloridaRepublican
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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2012, 05:11:04 PM »

Sure he will. It's time to pull out all the stops.
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2012, 05:21:09 PM »

He will argue that no doubt.  President Obama can only blame Bush II so much and the GOP in congress until he has to admit to his mistakes since it's almost the end of his first term.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2012, 05:40:46 PM »
« Edited: June 07, 2012, 05:42:46 PM by Kalery »

He can't blame others for his own failures.

Surely, the President have an absolute power and doesn't have to concern himself with a stalwart opposition of Congressional Republicans against everything just for opposition's sake... Oh wait.

I dare you to give me just a single example of Republicans doing anything constructive.
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morgieb
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« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2012, 05:50:55 PM »

He can't blame others for his own failures.

Surely, the President have an absolute power and doesn't have to concern himself with a stalwart opposition of Congressional Republicans against everything just for opposition's sake... Oh wait.

I dare you to give me just a single example of Republicans doing anything constructive.
It's NHI, don't expect him to give anything bar one-sentence quotes saying that Obama sucks and Romney is awesome.
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Bull Moose Base
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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2012, 06:46:04 PM »

Yes partisanship exist but your job is to  sell your legislation, build a connection with the opposite party and play hard ball if neccesary but also to do whatever's necessary to get things done in Washington. Yes partisanship has gotten worse but nothing Obama has faced was any worse than what Clinton faced in the midst of the Republican Revolution when Newt was speaker.

If Clinton inherited the most severe economic crisis in 80 years and this Republican Party (called crazy by Republican senators Clinton faced), we'd be in the exact same place.  Or Reagan.  (I assume Reagan would have to be a Democrat again.)  Obama didn't have any power to get his jobs bill passed by Republicans that had no interest in a pre-Election Day recovery. No president would have done better and that's the explanation he should be giving for why unemployment has only dropped 2 points in past 2 years, instead of 3.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2012, 06:55:21 PM »

He won't, but he should.
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NHI
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« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2012, 07:15:03 PM »

He can't blame others for his own failures.

Surely, the President have an absolute power and doesn't have to concern himself with a stalwart opposition of Congressional Republicans against everything just for opposition's sake... Oh wait.

I dare you to give me just a single example of Republicans doing anything constructive.
It's NHI, don't expect him to give anything bar one-sentence quotes saying that Obama sucks and Romney is awesome.

Bowels-Simpson in response to question regarding an example. Obama turned his back on the proposed plan.
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Purch
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« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2012, 08:54:04 PM »
« Edited: June 07, 2012, 08:57:46 PM by Purch »

Yes partisanship exist but your job is to  sell your legislation, build a connection with the opposite party and play hard ball if neccesary but also to do whatever's necessary to get things done in Washington. Yes partisanship has gotten worse but nothing Obama has faced was any worse than what Clinton faced in the midst of the Republican Revolution when Newt was speaker.

If Clinton inherited the most severe economic crisis in 80 years and this Republican Party (called crazy by Republican senators Clinton faced), we'd be in the exact same place.  Or Reagan.  (I assume Reagan would have to be a Democrat again.)  Obama didn't have any power to get his jobs bill passed by Republicans that had no interest in a pre-Election Day recovery. No president would have done better and that's the explanation he should be giving for why unemployment has only dropped 2 points in past 2 years, instead of 3.

And that's where we disagree, there's plenty of presidents throughout history who I feel have better qualities that influence their ability to take hard stances, compromise and force action in Washington. I personally feel just from watching Clinton throughout his presidency that he was much more effective selling his ideas in a hostile environment whiles Obama undersold and overcomplicated things like his Healthcare bill when he presented it too both congress and the American people.

Obama has power he's just not the kind of politican who can assert that power to get things done in a hostile environment. That's why I supported Hillary in 08, staying close to Bill's side allowed her to realize that hostile political environments either force you to get tough or fail. People like Chris Christie and Hilary Clinton are perfect for a hostile environment because they have a certain kind of toughness that would allow them to get things done whiles playing tough ball politics.  

I don't fault Obama for not being unable to overcome partisanship because the way he approached it in 08 was similar to a hopeless romantic. Obama truly believed that he could overcome partisanship and bring an end to political hostility but that's not how things work or get done in the Washington.

This argument would work for some independents unfortunately not the ones  like me who aren't as quickly to just place blame on congress for being hostile towards a president.

Fortunately for him Romney isn't the kind of candidate who screams "I'm ready for the toughness of Washington"
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Bull Moose Base
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2012, 09:38:43 AM »
« Edited: June 08, 2012, 09:45:38 AM by A dog on every car, a car in every elevator »

Yes partisanship exist but your job is to  sell your legislation, build a connection with the opposite party and play hard ball if neccesary but also to do whatever's necessary to get things done in Washington. Yes partisanship has gotten worse but nothing Obama has faced was any worse than what Clinton faced in the midst of the Republican Revolution when Newt was speaker.

If Clinton inherited the most severe economic crisis in 80 years and this Republican Party (called crazy by Republican senators Clinton faced), we'd be in the exact same place.  Or Reagan.  (I assume Reagan would have to be a Democrat again.)  Obama didn't have any power to get his jobs bill passed by Republicans that had no interest in a pre-Election Day recovery. No president would have done better and that's the explanation he should be giving for why unemployment has only dropped 2 points in past 2 years, instead of 3.

And that's where we disagree, there's plenty of presidents throughout history who I feel have better qualities that influence their ability to take hard stances, compromise and force action in Washington. I personally feel just from watching Clinton throughout his presidency that he was much more effective selling his ideas in a hostile environment whiles Obama undersold and overcomplicated things like his Healthcare bill when he presented it too both congress and the American people.

On the other hand, Clinton couldn't get his stimulus or healthcare bill (spearheaded by Hillary) past the GOP and Obama did.  And Clinton had no better success persuading the country to stop a GOP midterm wave 2 years after his election.  All of which to me is more evidence the public exaggerates the president's power and influence, which are limited by design.  And what matters more is math: how many votes you need, how many votes are determined to vote against you no matter what, etc.  Obama came into a dire situation that required more government action than any president in decades while facing a minority party who settled on obstruction as a strategy and shattered filibuster records.  Obama also had to push against an opposing propaganda apparatus more powerful, influential and aggressive than anything his predecessors faced.  Given  those factors, I think he's performed pretty well. On stuff like presiding over Bin Laden operation, where he's not encumbered by congress and polls, he's come across as a more effective Commander-in-Chief than Clinton or Reagan.





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Purch
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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2012, 10:07:10 AM »


Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the health care bill passed before the mid term elections.

Bill's healthcare bill was really taken over by Hilary and she was so fixated on this idea of nationalized healthcare that she didn't completely understand that the public was much more skeptical about the idea than she was. The healthcare bill didn't even reach congress before it died because the press attacked the idea of the government taken over healthcare. Hillary was to ambitious when she took control but it's definitly something that should have turned out better if executed more effectively.

The republican revolution happened as a result of Clinton's inability to deliver on promises during his first years in offices as a result of scandals, foreign policy(Like the Blackhawk incident) ext which made people questioned whether he was to inexperienced to actually get the job done and Newt capitalized on that. But still even after taking a pounding from the repubs Bill got tough and didn't let their  shutting down the government effect his stance on Medicare and in the end he won and after the repubs realized they couldn't punk him around he felt he was closing the gap between the parties (Until the scandal at the end)

As a commander an chief, maybe better than Clinton maybe because Rwanda and Somalia stayed fresh on the publics mind and he was seen as weak until he toughened up on foreign policy . But Reagen's handling of the soviets make me question if the Killing of Osama and drone attacks really justify putting him over someone who reigned over a very hostile time. If you factor in the selling of the missiles and his connection to Sadam than I guess it evens out

I think people underestimate what being tough, negotiating and building connections with the minority party help influence how effective a president will be.
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Purch
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2012, 10:11:21 AM »

At the end of the day it'll be effective for some people on the fact that congress's approval rating is like 8% or something.

So if there's something people hate more than Obama or Romney's it's congres
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milhouse24
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« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2012, 12:39:09 PM »

Some people think that the president can do nothing about a bad or good economy. 
Obviously that is wrong, presidents have enormous sway over economic issues and through legislation. 

Its easy for liberals to blame the Republican congress instead of Obama for economic malaise. 

However, the actual picture is what is happening in the real world.  If liberals were actually small business owners instead of unemployed english majors, then they would realize that small business owners are specifically choosing to not hire anyone now because they don't want to pay increased taxes on things like "Universal Health Care"

So, its not the republican congress preventing unemployment, its this 3 year old enormous "Universal health care plan" that is increasing taxes on small businesses.  Its easy to blame corporations for all the evils in the world and blaming the one percent, but these corporations are employing the rest of the 99% of us.  Unless we all become hippie commune farmers, there's no way to escape this capitalist system. 

The economy won't recover unless the supreme court strikes down "universal health care" and if the health care law is approved, then expect 8% unemployment to be the norm for the next 4 years. 
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