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Author Topic: Romney makes another gaffe, or at least, a very silly statement  (Read 2518 times)
Torie
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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2012, 02:04:36 pm »
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Putting aside the politics do we really need more policeman, fireman and teachers, and can we afford them?  The evidence that class size unless you get to less than a dozen in a classroom by the way is rather thin. It is the quality of the teacher, and the discipline environment which makes the difference. What we really need in general are better teachers - not more teachers. And for that, better teachers, we need to find the money from someplace. It's a top priority. It's our future.
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krazen1211
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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2012, 02:20:27 pm »
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Student/teacher ratio and class size aren't identical unless you're in a one-room school house.

No, but the average class size in the United States isn't anywhere near 32, either. And its certainly not even close to being true in Virginia, either.

http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass0708_2009324_t1s_08.asp



But I'm not a liberal who makes up garbage. Incidentally Utah has very cheap education costs because they reduced costs by reducing labor forces.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 02:24:39 pm by krazen1211 »Logged
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« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2012, 02:28:23 pm »
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It's sort of a trap as well as a gaffe; the gaffe part is that it targeted firefighters and police officers, who usually lean Republican, the trap part is that if the Obama campaign tries to highlight it in ads etc. they'll probably find it backfiring.  Ordinary people are fed up with public-sector benefits, as we saw in Wisconsin.

Except Romney's quote isn't that we need to pay our policemen, firemen, and teachers less, it's that we need fewer of them.  Granted, it was never in doubt that public school teachers would be far more likely to vote Obama, but this can hurt Romney among the public safety supporters, and possibly hurt the GOP downticket as well.  There's a reason why the effort to gut public sector unions did much better in Wisconsin than in Ohio.  In Wisconsin they excluded the public safety unions from the effects, while in Ohio they included them.
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2012, 02:42:21 pm »
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Guys, krazen is a psychopath and normal-people logic doesn't apply to him.
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Torie
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2012, 02:44:45 pm »
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It's sort of a trap as well as a gaffe; the gaffe part is that it targeted firefighters and police officers, who usually lean Republican, the trap part is that if the Obama campaign tries to highlight it in ads etc. they'll probably find it backfiring.  Ordinary people are fed up with public-sector benefits, as we saw in Wisconsin.

Except Romney's quote isn't that we need to pay our policemen, firemen, and teachers less, it's that we need fewer of them.  Granted, it was never in doubt that public school teachers would be far more likely to vote Obama, but this can hurt Romney among the public safety supporters, and possibly hurt the GOP downticket as well.  There's a reason why the effort to gut public sector unions did much better in Wisconsin than in Ohio.  In Wisconsin they excluded the public safety unions from the effects, while in Ohio they included them.

Romney didn't exactly say we need less of those three categories of government. He said Obama wanted more of the three categories, and Mittens said he wanted less government. Mittens does not have jurisdiction over those folks anyway as POTUS.
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« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2012, 03:03:16 pm »
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I don't think I've ever been more pissed off at Romney than I am now. Most of the time when he makes these gaffes, I just laugh them off because they sound so ridiculous.

But his statement today really gives a glimpse into Romney's actual plan for America, not hidden behind smoke and mirrors and buzzwords. And it scares me.

This man has proven that he is completely out of touch with ordinary Americans. Yes, Americans hate the concept of big government and red tape. I'll gladly admit that. But as a politician, you absolutely DO NOT criticize brave and hard working public servants like teachers, cops and firemen (and women). Strategically, this is because so many people are employed in these professions. But on a deeper level, Romney's comment shows that he actually doesn't understand the value of these men and women.

My mother is a special education teacher. When I was younger, I remember her coming home exhausted every single day. But she really made a difference in these kids' lives. Often, she was the only one who ever showed them any kind of compassion or special attention. She gave them confidence and convinced them that they could still do big things in their lives, despite their learning disabilities.

Being a teacher is one of the hardest, yet most important jobs in the world. But I guess to Romney, a teacher is no different than any other public servant- just a leech who is weighing down our government and our economy. Screw you Mitt. You will never, ever, EVER get my vote and I'll do my best to make sure everyone else I talk to knows what you said today.
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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2012, 03:07:23 pm »
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I don't think I've ever been more pissed off at Romney than I am now. Most of the time when he makes these gaffes, I just laugh them off because they sound so ridiculous.

But his statement today really gives a glimpse into Romney's actual plan for America, not hidden behind smoke and mirrors and buzzwords. And it scares me.

This man has proven that he is completely out of touch with ordinary Americans. Yes, Americans hate the concept of big government and red tape. I'll gladly admit that. But as a politician, you absolutely DO NOT criticize brave and hard working public servants like teachers, cops and firemen (and women). Strategically, this is because so many people are employed in these professions. But on a deeper level, Romney's comment shows that he actually doesn't understand the value of these men and women.

My mother is a special education teacher. When I was younger, I remember her coming home exhausted every single day. But she really made a difference in these kids' lives. Often, she was the only one who ever showed them any kind of compassion or special attention. She gave them confidence and convinced them that they could still do big things in their lives, despite their learning disabilities.

Being a teacher is one of the hardest, yet most important jobs in the world. But I guess to Romney, a teacher is no different than any other public servant- just a leech who is weighing down our government and our economy. Screw you Mitt. You will never, ever, EVER get my vote and I'll do my best to make sure everyone else I talk to knows what you said today.

What planet are you living on? He didn't criticize them, he's saying we don't need a massive new influx of them.
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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2012, 03:12:17 pm »
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Except you're totally wrong. If we need any more public employes at all, it's teachers, cops and firefighters.

And when he says we don't need any more of them, he is criticizing them. Because he's saying either more of them won't do any good or that we have too many already.

Obama already has a video online about the statement. It's blowing up the web. It will hurt Romney.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 03:13:54 pm by cope1989 »Logged

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« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2012, 03:16:13 pm »
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Romney is his own worst enemy.
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ShadowOfTheWave
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« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2012, 03:22:05 pm »
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Except you're totally wrong. If we need any more public employes at all, it's teachers, cops and firefighters.

And when he says we don't need any more of them, he is criticizing them. Because he's saying either more of them won't do any good or that we have too many already.

Obama already has a video online about the statement. It's blowing up the web. It will hurt Romney.


I'm sure it will, I don't even think Romney will win the election. But I disagree that saying we have too many of them is a criticism of them specifically. Lots of people think we have too many teachers, it doesn't mean they don't respect their profession and hard work. You can criticize the system without degrading those who work for it.
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krazen1211
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« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2012, 06:49:02 pm »
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It's really funny to see the amusing nonsense from Obama, especially given these facts.


http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/policyblog/detail/pa-public-school-staff-grows-as-enrollment-declines


One of the drivers of higher spending is an increase in staff sizes while enrollment has declined. Data from the PA Department of Education indicates that from 1999-2000 to 2008-09 the state has seen a 12 percent increase in public school staff and a 1 percent decline in enrollment. Pennsylvania schools added 17,345 professional staff and 15,582 support staff over this time, while enrollment declined by 26,960.





Of course, now Obama is whining that Pennsylvania got rid of a mere 9000 teachers. Looks like they have a ways to go still.
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Purch
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« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2012, 06:54:51 pm »
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With Obama " the private sector is doing fine" comment and now this I'd laugh if this campaign became about the importance of the Private vs Public sector.
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« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2012, 07:02:39 pm »
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With Obama " the private sector is doing fine" comment and now this I'd laugh if this campaign became about the importance of the Private vs Public sector.
That'd be like the Irish general election 2011. It wouldn't go well for the democrats.
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They call me PR
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« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2012, 07:04:02 pm »
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The Right's disdain for public servants is pretty nauseating, and hypocritical considering how the economic darlings of the Right-the executive class-have done so disgustingly well in these bad economic times.
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« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2012, 07:06:37 pm »
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Don't really agree with this statement, but fewer cops is always a good thing.
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« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2012, 07:08:14 pm »
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Don't really agree with this statement, but fewer cops is always a good thing.
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« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2012, 07:10:37 pm »
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Don't really agree with this statement, but fewer cops is always a good thing.

As a future homicide detective might I ask why?
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« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2012, 07:13:16 pm »
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Don't really agree with this statement, but fewer cops is always a good thing.

As a future homicide detective might I ask why?

Well, I don't support reduction of your kind of cops. If anything there should be more homicide detectives. I support cuts in highway patrol, vice squads, and anything having to do with enforcement of non-sexual misdemeanors.
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« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2012, 08:18:28 pm »
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It's sort of a trap as well as a gaffe; the gaffe part is that it targeted firefighters and police officers, who usually lean Republican, the trap part is that if the Obama campaign tries to highlight it in ads etc. they'll probably find it backfiring.  Ordinary people are fed up with public-sector benefits, as we saw in Wisconsin.

Except Romney's quote isn't that we need to pay our policemen, firemen, and teachers less, it's that we need fewer of them.  Granted, it was never in doubt that public school teachers would be far more likely to vote Obama, but this can hurt Romney among the public safety supporters, and possibly hurt the GOP downticket as well.  There's a reason why the effort to gut public sector unions did much better in Wisconsin than in Ohio.  In Wisconsin they excluded the public safety unions from the effects, while in Ohio they included them.

Romney didn't exactly say we need less of those three categories of government. He said Obama wanted more of the three categories, and Mittens said he wanted less government. Mittens does not have jurisdiction over those folks anyway as POTUS.

You do recall that a good chunk of the stimulus was a transfer of Federal funds so to let State and local governments continue to employ teachers and public safety officers without having to raise local tax rates?  (Wasteful spending in my opinion.  It should not be the role of the Federal government to bail out State governments which are unwilling to have mechanisms in place to deal with economic contingencies which were predictable in their occurrence, tho not their timing of course.)  Ostensibly that stimulus money was to give the State and local governments have time to make necessary adjustments, but most just used it to paper over their fiscal ineptitude and then whine when the Feds didn't send more money their way leaving them with the touch choice of cutting services or raising taxes that they didn't want to make.
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My November ballot:
Ervin(I) Gov.
Sellers(D) Lt. Gov.
Hammond(R) Sec. of State
Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
Hutto(D) US Sen (full)
Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
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« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2012, 12:26:46 am »
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It's really funny to see the amusing nonsense from Obama, especially given these facts.


http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/policyblog/detail/pa-public-school-staff-grows-as-enrollment-declines


One of the drivers of higher spending is an increase in staff sizes while enrollment has declined. Data from the PA Department of Education indicates that from 1999-2000 to 2008-09 the state has seen a 12 percent increase in public school staff and a 1 percent decline in enrollment. Pennsylvania schools added 17,345 professional staff and 15,582 support staff over this time, while enrollment declined by 26,960.





Of course, now Obama is whining that Pennsylvania got rid of a mere 9000 teachers. Looks like they have a ways to go still.

The problem in this country isn't the number of teachers in schools, but the number of staff. Counselors and superintendents for every freaking club, sport, course, department, etc. We need to re-focus on the teaching in school, not the miscellaneous fluff. Our money should go to academic programs first, and extracurriculars second. I think it's great that some schools are charging students to play on a sports teams nowadays, that's the only way that we can start on the path to responsibility.
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« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2012, 12:29:52 am »
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Don't really agree with this statement, but fewer cops is always a good thing.

As a future homicide detective might I ask why?

Well, I don't support reduction of your kind of cops. If anything there should be more homicide detectives. I support cuts in highway patrol, vice squads, and anything having to do with enforcement of non-sexual misdemeanors.

I agree, for every minor accident on the road there are five squad cars, 2 ambulances and a fire truck and I'm just talking about the fender benders...it's ridiculous...

...and don't even get me started on prison waste...
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« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2012, 02:39:28 pm »
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Don't really agree with this statement, but fewer cops is always a good thing.

As a future homicide detective might I ask why?

Well, I don't support reduction of your kind of cops. If anything there should be more homicide detectives. I support cuts in highway patrol, vice squads, and anything having to do with enforcement of non-sexual misdemeanors.

I agree, for every minor accident on the road there are five squad cars, 2 ambulances and a fire truck and I'm just talking about the fender benders...it's ridiculous...

...and don't even get me started on prison waste...

Far too many people are arrested in this country already for minor, frivolous and often made up crimes. Exactly why I don't support more cops.
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opebo
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« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2012, 02:51:33 pm »
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The Right's disdain for public servants is pretty nauseating, and hypocritical considering how the economic darlings of the Right-the executive class-have done so disgustingly well in these bad economic times.

More to the point, they do nothing but abuse and rob the populace, while public servants keep them alive.
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mondale84
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« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2012, 03:47:55 pm »
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Don't really agree with this statement, but fewer cops is always a good thing.

As a future homicide detective might I ask why?

Well, I don't support reduction of your kind of cops. If anything there should be more homicide detectives. I support cuts in highway patrol, vice squads, and anything having to do with enforcement of non-sexual misdemeanors.

I agree, for every minor accident on the road there are five squad cars, 2 ambulances and a fire truck and I'm just talking about the fender benders...it's ridiculous...

...and don't even get me started on prison waste...

Far too many people are arrested in this country already for minor, frivolous and often made up crimes. Exactly why I don't support more cops.

You know than in some states (like Louisiana) local sheriffs receive $25 daily per temporary prisoner and $75 daily per sentenced prisoner. Now I think that this money goes to the local police department but it's nevertheless an incentive to arrest more people. Then there are private prisons...
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Pope Kalwejt I of Northeast
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« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2012, 04:42:49 pm »
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Where's Winfield?
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