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| |-+  Political Debate (Moderator: Beet)
| | |-+  Traditional Values: Good or Bad?
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Question: Are Traditional Values good or bad for society?
Good   -25 (45.5%)
Bad   -30 (54.5%)
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Total Voters: 55

Author Topic: Traditional Values: Good or Bad?  (Read 3732 times)
futurepres
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« on: June 10, 2012, 10:37:58 pm »
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Are Traditional Values good or bad for society?
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opebo
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 06:14:43 am »
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They're bad, but they're not so bad if they are firmly tongue-in-cheek and handled in a 100% hypocritical fashion.  For example, a 'marriage-of-convenience' with loads of secret (out of respect) but tacitly acknowledged affairs is better than either being 'honestly' single or involved in an actual monogamous marriage.
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 07:40:20 am »
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Tradition is the enemy of progress.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 08:46:41 am »
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Tradition is the enemy of progress.

A belief in Progress is now absolutely a traditional value.
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 09:14:35 am »
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"Traditional values" and, for that matter, "progress" don't really mean anything in an objective sense beyond their basic definitions, so assigning either a moral value is a bit presumptuous, don't you think?
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 09:41:23 am »
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Good when followed voluntarily, bad when coercion enforced.
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A.G. Snowstalker
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 10:41:56 am »
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What the hell do you mean by "traditional values?" If you mean values like honesty, empathy, generosity, etc., then obviously good.
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SJoyce
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 11:05:47 am »
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What the hell do you mean by "traditional values?" If you mean values like honesty, empathy, generosity, etc., then obviously good.

I believe he means "traditional values", like not having abortions, not using euthanasia, sexual fidelity, abstinence, opposition to porn, opposition to "deviant sexual behaviors", closing down our borders, stronger military, more free enterprise, cut taxes, no drugs, no beer, no cigarettes, no gambling, and Jesus.
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 02:06:19 pm »
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What the hell do you mean by "traditional values?" If you mean values like honesty, empathy, generosity, etc., then obviously good.

I believe he means "traditional values", like not having abortions, not using euthanasia, sexual fidelity, abstinence, opposition to porn, opposition to "deviant sexual behaviors", closing down our borders, stronger military, more free enterprise, cut taxes, no drugs, no beer, no cigarettes, no gambling, and Jesus.
That's Conservative values, not necessarily traditional.
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2012, 03:45:10 pm »
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Tradition is the enemy of progress.

A belief in Progress is now absolutely a traditional value.

Word.
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SJoyce
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2012, 03:53:33 pm »
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What the hell do you mean by "traditional values?" If you mean values like honesty, empathy, generosity, etc., then obviously good.

I believe he means "traditional values", like not having abortions, not using euthanasia, sexual fidelity, abstinence, opposition to porn, opposition to "deviant sexual behaviors", closing down our borders, stronger military, more free enterprise, cut taxes, no drugs, no beer, no cigarettes, no gambling, and Jesus.
That's Conservative values, not necessarily traditional.

And "traditional values" is the language conservatives use to make their beliefs sound more acceptable to voters.
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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2012, 04:19:34 pm »
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I reject all traditional values, including but not limited to...

---Marriage
---The whole stupid "woman takes her husband's name and/or kid gets the father's name" tradition.  And it irritates me how many women just blindly accept something that basically implies as if they have a lesser value.
---Monogamy
---Hereditary surnames
---Abortion being a bad thing.
---Etc.

Inb4 some bullsh!t about how I'll "grow up" and realize how "correct" these things are, regardless of the fact that there's no objective superiority of these concepts.
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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2012, 04:40:41 pm »
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I can`t cast my vote here. Some traditions deserve being preserved and others are awful. Anyway "traditional values" usually are negative because both terms are used by conservative people for denying other people`s willings. But I see extremely positive being well-mannered, for example, and this is very traditional. So, blank vote.

Tradition is the enemy of progress.

A belief in Progress is now absolutely a traditional value.

This is really a good point when the notion of progress is under challenge nowadays.

 
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Redalgo
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« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2012, 07:39:56 pm »
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They are neither good nor bad - though in practice I refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of or adhere to several traditions. I shift the burden for providing evidence to society to explain why my doing (or not doing) something is proper, righteous, or otherwise necessary. I generally do whatever I want however I please unless pressured or coerced to do something I am not both fully prepared and willing to squabble over and risk getting punished for. Mind you, it is not that I disrespect tradition itself so much as I want the traditions of society to better conform to my values rather than the other way around. In lieu of that, I think it better for everyone to question all authority figures within, and institutions of, their cultures than for folks to blindly embrace the ways and norms of the past.
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« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2012, 09:18:56 pm »
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To me, traditional values are in the vein of honesty, integrity, fidelity, dedication, ect.

I wish society embraced those values more, as it once did.
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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2012, 09:25:37 pm »
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     Good when chosen of your own volition. Bad when forced on other people.
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morgieb
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« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2012, 10:06:06 pm »
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     Good when chosen of your own volition. Bad when forced on other people.
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SJoyce
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« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2012, 10:17:00 pm »
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To me, traditional values are in the vein of honesty, integrity, fidelity, dedication, ect.

I wish society embraced those values more, as it once did.

If he's talking about that (which I call traditional values), then those are great. However, if he's referring to what I defined them as (which I call "traditional values"), then my opinion is different.
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shua
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« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2012, 11:17:17 pm »
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without traditional values of some sort, society can't exist.  You can't really escape from them - it's just a question of what tradition you are drawing from, and what you are doing to transform it.
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« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2012, 03:01:46 am »
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Tradition is the enemy of progress.

A belief in Progress is now absolutely a traditional value.

I know the notion of progress is old-fashioned. But tradition doesn't necessarily equal "old-fashioned thing". Tradition is a thing whose sole legitimacy for existing lies in the fact it has existed in the past (and generally for a long time). You can very well support something of the past without being a traditionalist.
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Robb of the House Stark, First of his Name, Lord of Winterfell and King in the North



Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
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« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2012, 05:20:38 am »
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Tradition is a thing whose sole legitimacy for existing lies in the fact it has existed in the past (and generally for a long time).

No, that's not what the word means, even if it is the case in certain cases.
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« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2012, 05:30:07 am »
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The things I understand as 'traditional values' are horrible.
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Kushahontas
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« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2012, 10:10:36 am »
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The things I understand as 'traditional values' are horrible.
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IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
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« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2012, 01:06:37 pm »
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"Traditional values" typically refer to values that people didn't actually hold to.
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Senator Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2012, 08:02:47 am »
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Love thy neighbor: good traditional value

Execute homsexuals: bad traditional value
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