Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 02, 2014, 07:29:23 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Political Debate (Moderator: Beet)
| | |-+  Traditional Values: Good or Bad?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Print
Poll
Question: Are Traditional Values good or bad for society?
Good   -25 (45.5%)
Bad   -30 (54.5%)
Show Pie Chart
Total Voters: 55

Author Topic: Traditional Values: Good or Bad?  (Read 3804 times)
They call me PR
Progressive Realist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5414
United States


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2012, 12:07:26 pm »
Ignore

It depends on the value.
Logged
fezzyfestoon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8287
United States


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2012, 12:11:53 pm »
Ignore

They would be good if we had any. All the positive traditions of this society seem to have been completely discarded in favor of new, heavily politicized ones that do no good to anyone. Things like honesty, generosity, self-control, family, etc. have given way to selfishness, hate, greed, shallowness, etc. Those are the values I see in our every-day culture that people seem to prop up under the abused guise of "traditional values".
Logged
They call me PR
Progressive Realist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5414
United States


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2012, 10:33:48 pm »
Ignore

They would be good if we had any. All the positive traditions of this society seem to have been completely discarded in favor of new, heavily politicized ones that do no good to anyone. Things like honesty, generosity, self-control, family, etc. have given way to selfishness, hate, greed, shallowness, etc. Those are the values I see in our every-day culture that people seem to prop up under the abused guise of "traditional values".

This.
Logged
Foucaulf
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 657


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2012, 11:10:50 pm »
Ignore

On traditional values in general: There's nothing intrinsically wrong with questioning or refusing them, by the reasoning that our current moral system is a product of such. I'm attracted to the idea that tradition has to be questioned, lest it become a tool of power.

On "Traditional Values": what most people in this thread call good traditions are concepts cribbed from the Greeks anyways, so certainly we can pick and choose.
Logged

Quote
<Xahar> how much do you want to bet that this "gangsta" roommate was listening to Drake
<Xahar> and that's what set Scott off
HagridOfTheDeep
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5170
Canada


Political Matrix
E: 3.35, S: 0.52

View Profile
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2012, 01:04:25 pm »
Ignore

Whether some of us like it or not, tradition is what makes us who we are as a people. I think we can accept traditional values while simulatenously accepting that the undercurrent of those values has changed.

A woman taking her husband's last name may seem to imply ownership to some people, but I think it's possible to respect this tradition without subscribing to the belief that the woman is a lesser partner.

I think it's important to respect the course we've taken. We can pay homage to traditional values without exhibiting the hate that may have one been associated with these values. I'm always flabbergasted when someone suggests I'm homophobic or "anti-gay" because I don't support gay marriage. I know this is sensitive territory, so I don't want to get into it too much... but to me marriage has always been a tradition--not a right. Not something that can be changed so it's more universal. Do I hate gay people? No. But I respect the weighty tradition of where we're coming from, and I think tradition is, in general, a good thing.
Logged

SPC
Chuck Hagel 08
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9446
Latvia


Political Matrix
E: 9.35, S: -9.13

P P
View Profile
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2012, 02:52:48 am »
Ignore

"Traditional" values implies that they have been selected for that reason rather than due to inherent merit.
Logged


House endorsements: Loudermilk (GA-11), Blum (IA-1), Dietzel (LA-6), Poliquin (ME-2), Emmer (MN-6), Mills (MN-8), Brat (VA-7), Didier (WA-4), Mooney (WV-2)
Аverroës Nix
Averroës Nix
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10079
United States


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2012, 08:25:52 am »
Ignore

"Traditional" values might be good or bad, depending on the moral substance of the value in question, but their goodness or badness is rooted in factors other than their being traditional.
Logged

Quote
Dentures, for instance, is something Medicaid recipients could live without, Astorino suggested in the interview.

When asked how someone without dentures could eat, Astorino flippantly replied with a laugh, “Soup is good.”
Oldiesfreak1854
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8807
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2012, 08:35:39 am »
Ignore

Good generally, except when they encourage wrongdoing (bigotry, violence, etc.)
Logged

Quote from: Dwight D. Eisenhower
There is nothing wrong with America that the faith, love of freedom, intelligence, and energy of her citizens cannot cure.
When I voted for the first time a few weeks ago, I announced "damnit, I voted for Pat Buchanan!" Nobody got it.
So rightwing that I broke the Political Compass!
Rockingham
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 526


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2012, 06:55:24 am »
Ignore

"Traditional" values implies that they have been selected for that reason rather than due to inherent merit.
Yes(as proven by the fact that tradition varies between subgroups... if it was decided on merit then it would be identical in Utah, Beijing and Niger), but so what? We don't have a particularly effective method for ascertaining the merit of many social behaviors. In the absence of effective and neutral means for ascertaining merit, defaulting to preexisting patterns of behaviour that are at least proven to no be totally disastrous is a defensible stance.

That is not of course to oppose change... social innovation in response to challenges is itself a traditional value in most cultures because it is indisputable necessary. If a car veers towards you on the road you don't respond by continuing to follow the typical road rules.

I suppose what I'm saying is that traditions are neither black nor white nor grey... they're a coping strategy for a human race that really isn't intelligent enough to function in social anarchy.
Logged
LiberalJunkie
LiberalJunkie99
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 675
Canada


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2012, 06:42:32 pm »
Ignore

Tradition is just an excuse to keep doing racist intolerant things.
Logged
DC Al Fine
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7156
Canada


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2012, 09:32:28 am »
Ignore

Good when followed individually. Bad when enforced by government
Logged

Economic: 3.1
Social: 2.78

Quote from: Don Colacho
The Gospels and the Communist Manifesto are on the wane; the world’s future lies in the power of Coca-Cola and pornography.
angus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14965
View Profile
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2012, 11:40:07 am »
Ignore

Are Traditional Values good or bad for society?

Depends upon the society, and the values, and your definition of good and bad.  Collectivism and respect for the elders, for example, has held China together for thousands of years, but it has also left them with some pretty cruel masters from time to time.  The German tradition of industry and efficiency has brought about some fantastic labor-saving devices, but it has also laid waste to the European continent.  Our own tradition of independence and expediency have given the world great ideas, but those same traditions have given the world Fast Food. 

Societies are held together, for better or worse, by their traditions.  I posit that the fundamental objective measure of "good" is the longevity of the society itself.  In that metric, the traditional values can go either way.  The Amerindians laughed at the Dutch traders who thought they could own land, but it was their own value system, which respected nature, that helped bring about their demise.  Yankees value wealth and entrepreneurship, and that tradition has made our nation great and strong, but it has also caused us to concentrate wealth in such a way that our nation is now crumbling.  Over four thousand bridges in Pennsylvania alone, for example, are considered structurally deficient, but our society's tradition of respecting individual responsibility inhibits the legislature from taking steps necessary to repair or replace them. 

It isn't so simple as the question implies, and I don't think the question, as phrased, has a one-word answer.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines