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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Atlasia-Israel Defense and Security Cooperation Treaty (VS)  (Read 3737 times)
GM Napoleon
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« Reply #100 on: July 13, 2012, 12:44:59 pm »
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I honestly feel your veto is a mistake. I may be devoted to the cause of peace, but I'm gonna have to agree with Senator Ben and former VP Tmfth. Tmfth's assessment of the time it was posted is correct thus this should be law as Napoleon did not post the veto within the seven day time limit. I I held the presidency this thing would be signed as soon as I saw it because it has the merits.

The seven day time limit has thirty minutes remaining.

It was placed on the presidents desk under Polnut this this should've been his final act.

No, a President should not make major foreign policy decisions in his last few hours. That would be disrespectful and irresponsible and you know it.

This treaty was looking at being signed and a mear change in administration kills it. That is what is disrespectful. 

Oh yes, how dare a President try to make his own policy decisions for the course of his term.
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« Reply #101 on: July 13, 2012, 12:48:23 pm »
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Mr. President, I agree that we should not antagonize other allies in the region.  However, Israel is our most prominent ally in the region, the only other democracy.  They are surrounded by enemies, and their number one enemy now possesses nuclear weapons.  Just as we made formal guarantees after WWII that we would defend our European allies, so now must we defend Israel.
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« Reply #102 on: July 13, 2012, 07:30:50 pm »
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This treaty threatens to further erode the reputation of Atlasia in West Asia and, in doing so, afford various terrorist organizations even more fodder to use in their recruitment drives and campaigns of propaganda. The security-related self interests of Atlasia and Israel are far from being identical, a treaty is unnecessary for Atlasia to assist Israel should it become the target of a war of aggression, and Israel's nuclear arsenal and mistreatment of the Palestinian nation puts us in the awkward situation of having to back up a country which is at least partially to blame for ongoing strategic challenges in their region. What useful purpose does the proposed agreement serve?

Iranian and Israeli possession of nuclear weapons is no vital concern of Atlasia so long as both countries use their arsenals for the purpose of strategic, defensive deterrents, which seems far more likely than the Iranian leadership pressing ahead with some plot to crater out Tel Aviv - in the process plunging itself into a major regional conflict from which it is unlikely to emerge without suffering grievous wounds inflicted by either Israel itself or a collection of allies in an overwhelming retaliation. I feel no country should have nuclear weapons, but if we can be trusted internationally to have them and so can Israel, and we tolerate Pakistan's stockpile, then why not Iran's?

And the fact of the matter is, Israel can defend itself without us playing the part of its nightclub's bouncer, and we ought not to be getting ourselves too close to a regime whose policies at times prove to be more of a liability than asset for the Republic of Atlasia - in terms of our security and reputation in the greater community of nations, alike. Indeed, I would even go so far as to state that Israel has become one of its own worst enemies in threatening its own capacity for providing long-term security and stability for its people. I can also confidently say that what West Asia in general needs today is not any further preparation to exchange senseless killing and destruction.

Our relations with people in West Asia would benefit from a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, commitments to aid human development so young people have improved economic opportunities in the future, and special attention given to poverty-stricken areas of countries rife with discontent. Many terrorist organizations hunger for the desperate, hopeless, and disenchanted; folks who feel they have nothing to look forward to in life or little to lose are choice prey for the advocates of violent causes to exploit. In the short-term, we ought to dispel impressions of Atlasia being a force of Judeo-Christian (or otherwise imperialist) aggression that "deserves" to be attacked for being set on corrupting if not replacing all aspects of traditional cultures in the region. For finding a positive endgame in regards to Iran, meanwhile, I think it is important we be more empathetic and respectful in our methods of engaging them on security issues. Diplomatic efforts should aim to achieve mutual gains - not renew previous gestures of suspicion or voice brutish threats of violence (which is what this treaty tacitly does, I reckon).

So, though I do want to apologize in advance for being a bit disorganized in the presentation of my thoughts here, I am convinced that President Napoleon and a number of my colleagues in the Senate were wise to take a stand against this treaty, a treaty that paves the way for essentially none of the constructive changes that we should be seeking in the difficult years to come. To be clear, I stand in solidarity with the good people of Israel no less than I do with those people who reside in other countries, and do appreciate the sentiments of those who have worked in support of the agreement, but it is as it stands today completely unsuitable for ratification.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 08:11:59 pm by Redalgo »Logged

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« Reply #103 on: July 14, 2012, 02:31:13 am »
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Mr. President, I agree that we should not antagonize other allies in the region.  However, Israel is our most prominent ally in the region, the only other democracy.  They are surrounded by enemies, and their number one enemy now possesses nuclear weapons.  Just as we made formal guarantees after WWII that we would defend our European allies, so now must we defend Israel.

This treaty just causes too much trouble in the Middle East. We unofficially do have a treaty with Israel and will protect them if they are attacked. We know this and they do as well. Atlasia has shown a consistent bias towards Israel, ignoring for years the human rights abuses that go on not just in Hamas occupied Gaza, but also in the West Bank where a friendly government is in place. That is not an acceptable situation, and keeping that in mind, there is no chance in hell I will be forging any formal treaty with Israel which will be seen symbolically as Atlasia endorsing the continuing unfair treatment of Palestinians by Israel regardless of what our intentions may be.

And of course the treaty will be seen as a threat by not just Iran, but the rest of the Middle East. We don't need that to ensure Israel is protected against an aggressive attack.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #104 on: July 14, 2012, 08:39:31 am »
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Quote
Section 3: Rules on Veto Overrides
1. If a piece of legislation is vetoed by the President, the original sponsor of the bill must let the PPT know publicly on the Senate floor within seventy-two (72) hours of the veto being placed whether he wishes to have a vote to override the veto. If he replies in the negative or fails to reply within the given time, the legislation will be withdrawn from the Senate floor.

2. Extensions to this time period may only be allowed by the PPT in case of a publicly announced absence from the forum.

3. Sections 1 and 2 of this Article shall apply in full to voting on a Veto Override, with this exception:

For the purposes of a Veto Override only, any Senator who Abstains from voting shall be counted as a vote Against the legislation under consideration.

4. Upon a piece of legislation being vetoed by the President, if the slot reserved for debating overrides is empty, that legislation shall be moved to that slot and a new piece of legislation, if available, shall be moved into the vacated slot; but if the slot reserved for debating overrides is occupied, then debate shall take place in its current slot and it shall remain there until said debate is concluded, even if the slot reserved for debating overrides should be vacated.


The directions regarding slots needs updating.

An override has been requested and the question on the floor is whether or not to override the veto of the Atlasia-Israel Defense and Security Cooperation Treaty by President Napoleon. Senators please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain. Passage requires a two-thirds vote in the affirmative.
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« Reply #105 on: July 14, 2012, 09:25:56 am »
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Aye
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« Reply #106 on: July 14, 2012, 11:19:24 am »
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Nay.
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Redalgo
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« Reply #107 on: July 14, 2012, 12:13:06 pm »
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Nay
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« Reply #108 on: July 14, 2012, 04:43:20 pm »
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Alright, well pwnt people. I'll be off eating a doughnut in my office if anyone needs anything. Please let me know when Sbane or Seatown drives the final nail into this thing's coffin, okay? Hopefully next time we will have a treaty we can support. :]





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« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2012, 08:31:30 pm »
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Nay, today is not your day bloodthirsty hounds.
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SJoyce
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« Reply #110 on: July 14, 2012, 09:24:06 pm »
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Nay, today is not your day bloodthirsty hounds.

Best vote explanation ever.
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Sbane
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« Reply #111 on: July 14, 2012, 10:32:39 pm »
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Nay
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Senator JCL and the geologist
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« Reply #112 on: July 15, 2012, 03:38:45 pm »
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Nay, today is not your day bloodthirsty hounds.

This treaty should be resubmitted after Napoleon is out of the office. The supporters of this treaty are not the bloodthirsty hounds. The Palestinians are being mistreated more by their own and Arabs than anything Israel may or may not have done. Wouldn't the right thing be to encourage our Arab allies to offer citizenship to the Palestinians in their countries? For us to ask for more consessions from Israel would be to betray the very covenant ours is based upon and invite disastrous consequences of biblical proportions. You are messing with Israel to our national peril.
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« Reply #113 on: July 15, 2012, 03:41:20 pm »
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Nay, today is not your day bloodthirsty hounds.

Jesus Christ, this is a friendship treaty.  You people need to control yourselves.
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« Reply #114 on: July 15, 2012, 09:05:35 pm »
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Nay, today is not your day bloodthirsty hounds.

Jesus Christ, this is a friendship treaty.  You people need to control yourselves.

Does the Atlasian Senate have a way to censure this kind of behavior? It brings the Senate into dishonor and disrepute and is not conductive to the atmosphere the Senate (IMO) should portray.
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President John Hay
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« Reply #115 on: July 15, 2012, 09:28:36 pm »
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Aye

Senator Seatown's rhetoric is disgusting
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #116 on: July 16, 2012, 07:32:42 am »
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Aye


The foreign policy positions and views of young liberals today in general are about as conspiratorial and ridiculous as that of the birthers.
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Sheriff Buford TX Justice
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« Reply #117 on: July 16, 2012, 12:04:17 pm »
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Aye
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My parents are pretty good about smelling a rat. 
Let me put this as clear as I can (saying this to myself, as well, so I can see it): I WILL get a job with CADD and I WILL keep the job.
Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #118 on: July 17, 2012, 08:05:05 am »
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Nay, today is not your day bloodthirsty hounds.

This is not a code pink rally, this is a Senate where we should be able to respectfully disagree without resorting to childish name calling and doubting of one's onponent's intentions for supporting a bill, in such a conspiratorial manner. Please refrain from such behavior in the future.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #119 on: July 21, 2012, 09:16:25 am »
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Vote on Overriding the Veto of the Atlasia-Israel Defense and Security Cooperation Treaty:

Aye (4): AndrewPA, Ben, Clarence, NC Yankee
Nay (5): Redalgo, sbane, Scott, Seatown, Wormyguy
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (1): TJ in Cleve

The Veto Override has failed.
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