MA: Amendment to the Mideast Sex Crime Statute (Tabled)

[Jayhawker]

As one of the only teenagers who actually lives in the Mideast, I have serious concerns with these ages. Lots of high school relationships would be in jeopardy because of this. I'd be interested in hearing the argument behind these specific numbers, or if they were just chosen at random.

Also, are we really sending minors to prison over this?

[ZuWo]

As one of the only teenagers who actually lives in the Mideast, I have serious concerns with these ages. Lots of high school relationships would be in jeopardy because of this. I'd be interested in hearing the argument behind these specific numbers, or if they were just chosen at random.

Also, are we really sending minors to prison over this?

Ask badger and the members of the Assembly back in 2005 why they came up with some of these numbers - I have used these old ages as a starting point for this amendment and tightened them in cases where very young children are involved and where the age gap is very large.
Indeed, defining age restrictions in legal matters is always arbitrary. For example, why should teenagers be allowed to drive cars at the age of 16? Why not at the age of 15, 17 or 18? Why should they have the right to buy certain kinds of alcohol only when they are 21, and not when they are 19, 20 or 22? It is your right to be unhappy with some of these ages but you won't be able to define these ages in a way that is less arbitrary.

Also, please have a close look at the bill. As Section 3 and my previous post make clear, the punishments are not carved in stone. If a case is brought to court (and this is rare) a judge can acquit an individual any time because it is solely the maximum penalties that are defined. Our judges will punish an individual only if they consider a certain sexual encounter a case of sexual abuse. If the context of the sexual encounter is unproblematic because it is evident that the younger person was aware of what he/she was doing there is no reason to convinct the older person. This bill gives our judges a useful tool to punish those who deserve it but at the same time does not send minors to prison who have not committed a real crime.

[HappyWarrior]

Sadly with all the concerns raised in debate I think I may have to oppose this bill sadly unless serious changes can be made to the bill.

[ZuWo]

Sadly with all the concerns raised in debate I think I may have to oppose this bill sadly unless serious changes can be made to the bill.

I am looking forward to seeing concrete proposals of the things that need to be altered. The thing is, if we flat out reject my amendment we will return to the status quo, which also contains clauses like these:

7. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 14 and 16 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.

9. Any sexual conduct, except oral sex and mutual masturbation, with a person between the ages of 14 and 16 by a person between the ages of 16 and 18 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.

http://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Mideast_Sex_Crime_Statute

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

I'm sorry - can this get broken down to show what exactly the changes are from the current statute?  I'm having a hard time following htis.

[ZuWo]

With pleasure, Assemblyman Inks.

Here's the current statute:

Section 1

1. All those persons between the ages of 14 years old and 16 years old not incarcerated for crimes shall have the right to consent to engage in oral sex or mutual masturbation with persons between the ages of 14 years old and 18 years old.

2. All those Laws criminalising solitary masturbation are repealed.

Section 2

1. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 14 years by a person over the age of 21 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.
2. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 12 years by a person over the age of 18 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.
3. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 10 years by a person over the age of 16 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.
4. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 14 and 16 years by a person over the age of 21 years is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.
5. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 10 and 12 years by a person between the ages of 16 and 18 years is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.
6. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 12 and 14 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.
7. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 14 and 16 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.
8. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 12 and 14 years by a person between the ages of 16 and 18 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.
9. Any sexual conduct, except oral sex and mutual masturbation, with a person between the ages of 14 and 16 by a person between the ages of 16 and 18 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.
10. The clauses in this Section shall only apply to circumstances where all parties involved in the sexual conduct were willing, even though they are unable under the Law to give informed, legal consent.

Section 3

1. Those guilty of Carnal Sexual Conduct may be punished by up to six months in prison and a fine of up to $1000. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall not be placed on the Sex Offenders Register.
2. Those guilty of Statutory Rape of the Second Degree may be punished by up to ten years in prison and a fine of up to $7500. If released a person guilty of this crime shall be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for up to twenty years.
3. Those guilty of Statutory Rape of the First Degree may be punished by up to life in prison and an unlimited fine. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for life

Section 4

1. Nothing in Sections 2 and 3 shall be construed to amend in anyway the definitions of, or punishments for, rape where consent by one of the parties involved is not given.
2. Section 3 of the Mideast Pornography and Sex Crime Statute is hereby repealed.

[ZuWo]

And here's what my amendment (including the most recent changes which yet have to be voted on) would try to do:

The Mideast Sex Crime Statute shall be amended to read:

Section 1

1. All those persons between the ages of 14 years old and 16 years old not incarcerated for crimes shall have the right to consent to engage in oral sex or mutual masturbation with persons between the ages of 14 years old and 18 years old.

2. All those Laws criminalising solitary masturbation are repealed.

Section 2

1. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 16 years by a person over the age of 21 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.

2. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 12 years by a person over the age of 16 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.

3. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 12 and 14 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.

4. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 14 and 15 years by a person between the ages of 18 and 21 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.

5. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 12 and 13 years by a person between the ages of 16 and 18 is defined as statutory rape of the second degree.

6. Any sexual conduct, except oral sex and mutual masturbation, with a person between the ages of 14 and 15 by a person between the ages of 17 and 18 is defined as carnal sexual conduct.

7. The clauses in this Section shall only apply to circumstances where all parties involved in the sexual conduct were willing, even though they are unable under the Law to give informed, legal consent.

Section 3

1. Those guilty of Carnal Sexual Conduct may be punished by up to a year in prison and a fine of up to $2000. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall not be placed on the Sex Offenders Register.

2. Those guilty of Statutory Rape of the Second Degree may be punished by up to fifteen years in prison and a fine of up to $11250. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for up to thirty years.

3. Those guilty of Statutory Rape of the First Degree may be punished by up to life in prison and an unlimited fine. If released, a person guilty of this crime shall be placed on the Sex Offenders Register for life.

Section 4

1. Nothing in Sections 2 and 3 shall be construed to amend in anyway the definitions of, or punishments for, rape where consent by one of the parties involved is not given.

2. Section 3 of the Mideast Pornography and Sex Crime Statute is hereby repealed.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

I don't see any reason to change it.  If anything, maybe loosen clauses 7-9.

[HappyWarrior]

I don't see any reason to change it.  If anything, maybe loosen clauses 7-9.

^^^^^^^ This

[ZuWo]

I don't see any reason to change it.  If anything, maybe loosen clauses 7-9.

I am ready to accept a loosening of clauses 7-9 if we at least tighten clause 2 so that it reads

2. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 12 years by a person over the age of 16 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.

We are dealing with sexual conducts that involve children who are younger than 12 so I think such an amendment can be considered appropriate.
If we accept this amendment Sections 3 and 5 will become superfluous. Thus this amendment has the advantage of simplying the current Statute:

3. Any sexual conduct with a person under the age of 10 years by a person over the age of 16 years is defined as statutory rape of the first degree.

5. Any sexual conduct with a person between the ages of 10 and 12 years by a person between the ages of 16 and 18 years is defined as statutory rape of the second degree

[ZuWo]

This bill has become such a mess that I would like to withdraw it. However, that's not the end of debate. I will work on a better version of this amendment, which would tighten section 2, clause 2 and loosen section 2, clauses 7 to 9 of the original statute.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

This bill has become such a mess that I would like to withdraw it. However, that's not the end of debate. I will work on a better version of this amendment, which would tighten section 2, clause 2 and loosen section 2, clauses 7 to 9 of the original statute.

Next time, I'd suggest using the original statute's text, striking through what you want deleted and bolding what you want added.  That would make it MUCH easier to see what you're actually changing.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

Can we get this labeled tabled?

[HappyWarrior]

Can we get this labeled tabled?

Ah you are correct there sir.