Top 5 Favorite Presidents

[Mechaman]

Hmm, let me see here:

1. Thomas Jefferson (Democratic Republican-Virginia)
2. Calvin Coolidge (Republican-Massachusetts)
3. S. Grover Cleveland (Democratic-New York)
4. John Q. Adams (National Republican-Massachusetts)
5. Chester A. Arthur (Republican-New York)

[Donerail]

1. Van Buren
2. Cleveland
3. Tyler
4. Coolidge
5. Taylor

ROFL

I mean, just ROFL.

Not like yours were much better. Lincoln? LBJ? Teddy? Really?

[Napoleon]

1. Bill Clinton
2. John F. Kennedy
3. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
4. Dwight Eisenhower
5. Thomas Jefferson

Good list, I would probably put JQA and Lincoln as the final two.

[Antonio the Sixth]

1. Van Buren
2. Cleveland
3. Tyler
4. Coolidge
5. Taylor

ROFL

I mean, just ROFL.

Not like yours were much better. Lincoln? LBJ? Teddy? Really?

LBJ is somewhat debatable, but it's pretty obvious why one could consider him a great president. Lincoln and Teddy are widely considered by historians as being among the best.

Tyler, on the other hand, is clearly in the bottom five for a sane person.

[Donerail]

1. Van Buren
2. Cleveland
3. Tyler
4. Coolidge
5. Taylor

ROFL

I mean, just ROFL.

Not like yours were much better. Lincoln? LBJ? Teddy? Really?

LBJ is somewhat debatable, but it's pretty obvious why one could consider him a great president. Lincoln and Teddy are widely considered by historians as being among the best.

Tyler, on the other hand, is clearly in the bottom five for a sane person.

LBJ had some good parts of his presidency (Freedom of Information Act, Civil Rights Act of 1964), but the vast majority of it (Voting Rights Act (not all of it, just Section 5; namely, the part of Section 5 that allows/mandates FL-03), Vietnam, the draft, Agent Orange, wiretapping MLK, invading the Dominican Republic, and supporting a coup in Brazil) was bad. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, locked up politicians who opposed him, shut down newspapers, started a draft, launched the Dakota War of 1862, and possibly tried to assassinate a foreign head of state (Dahlgren Affair and whatnot). Teddy liked to invade things like the Philippines, and his foreign policy towards places like the DR, Japan, and Panama was worse than most modern-day neo-cons.

While I don't agree with Tyler's expansionist policies, particularly regarding Texas, he did manage to get several border disputes resolved via the Webster-Ashburton Treaty, didn't interfere with the Doorite incident in Rhode Island, and ended the Second Seminole War (the most costly Indian War in history).

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Sanity is relative, Antonio.

[Mechaman]

Sanity is relative, Antonio.

Yeah, not sure that I would put John Freaking Tyler on my top 5.  However it's kind of impossible for there to be a sort of objective consensus about "favorite" presidents.  I mean yeah, there are a lot of ketchup fans but that doesn't change the fact that there are mustard fans or clam chowder fans.

[/moderate hero rant]

[Antonio the Sixth]

I think Reagan was a horribly awful President, but I can understand why some people would think he was a great one. Same (to a lesser extent) for H. W. Bush, McKinley, Jackson, etc. But as for Tyler, it just makes no sense. It's not that I particularly dislike him or his policies; he was just an epic failure.

[Mechaman]

I think Reagan was a horribly awful President, but I can understand why some people would think he was a great one. Same (to a lesser extent) for H. W. Bush, McKinley, Jackson, etc. But as for Tyler, it just makes no sense. It's not that I particularly dislike him or his policies; he was just an epic failure.

Yes I agree.

It takes a particularly brave soul to defend John Tyler.  I mean, people can at least say Buchanan was dealt a bad card.....

[Oakvale]

Worth noting that there's considerable daylight between "favourite" and "best".

1) Truman.
2) Franklin D. Roosevelt.
3) Lincoln.
4) Kennedy.

[opebo]

5. Barack Obama

Really ?

Sure, after the other four listed.  Who would be further left than him other than FDR, Truman, LBJ, and Kennedy?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Eh...

Not sure on mine.

Hmm, let me see here:

1. Thomas Jefferson (Democratic Republican-Virginia)
2. Calvin Coolidge (Republican-Massachusetts)
3. Grover S. Cleveland (Democratic-New York)
4. John Q. Adams (National Republican-Massachusetts)
5. Chester A. Arthur (Republican-New York)

Makes sense I guess. Why do you like JQA though? I like him too, but from what I know, no libertarian should like him.

[Antonio the Sixth]

5. Barack Obama

Really ?

Sure, after the other four listed.  Who would be further left than him other than FDR, Truman, LBJ, and Kennedy?

Since TR, Eisenhower and Nixon were all more left-wing than him, I'm surprised at your choice.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

I think Reagan was a horribly awful President, but I can understand why some people would think he was a great one. Same (to a lesser extent) for H. W. Bush, McKinley, Jackson, etc. But as for Tyler, it just makes no sense. It's not that I particularly dislike him or his policies; he was just an epic failure.

This I can understand.

[Donerail]

But as for Tyler, it just makes no sense. It's not that I particularly dislike him or his policies; he was just an epic failure.

He certainly did fail on re-election, his cabinet (which is one of the main reasons I respect him; he was willing to go against his party based on his principles), and his domestic agenda, but he managed to achieve multiple significant foreign policy landmarks (some of which I already mentioned; I think I forgot to mention he opened China to US trade as well) during his administration.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

But as for Tyler, it just makes no sense. It's not that I particularly dislike him or his policies; he was just an epic failure.

He certainly did fail on re-election, his cabinet (which is one of the main reasons I respect him; he was willing to go against his party based on his principles), and his domestic agenda, but he managed to achieve multiple significant foreign policy landmarks (some of which I already mentioned; I think I forgot to mention he opened China to US trade as well) during his administration.

Still, did you have to copy straight from the Libertarian Master List?

[Donerail]

But as for Tyler, it just makes no sense. It's not that I particularly dislike him or his policies; he was just an epic failure.

He certainly did fail on re-election, his cabinet (which is one of the main reasons I respect him; he was willing to go against his party based on his principles), and his domestic agenda, but he managed to achieve multiple significant foreign policy landmarks (some of which I already mentioned; I think I forgot to mention he opened China to US trade as well) during his administration.

Still, did you have to copy straight from the Libertarian Master List?

Yes. Yes I did.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

But as for Tyler, it just makes no sense. It's not that I particularly dislike him or his policies; he was just an epic failure.

He certainly did fail on re-election, his cabinet (which is one of the main reasons I respect him; he was willing to go against his party based on his principles), and his domestic agenda, but he managed to achieve multiple significant foreign policy landmarks (some of which I already mentioned; I think I forgot to mention he opened China to US trade as well) during his administration.

Still, did you have to copy straight from the Libertarian Master List?

Yes. Yes I did.

Isn't Libertarianism about independent thinking or something like that?

[Donerail]

But as for Tyler, it just makes no sense. It's not that I particularly dislike him or his policies; he was just an epic failure.

He certainly did fail on re-election, his cabinet (which is one of the main reasons I respect him; he was willing to go against his party based on his principles), and his domestic agenda, but he managed to achieve multiple significant foreign policy landmarks (some of which I already mentioned; I think I forgot to mention he opened China to US trade as well) during his administration.

Still, did you have to copy straight from the Libertarian Master List?

Yes. Yes I did.

Isn't Libertarianism about independent thinking or something like that?

It's about free will and doing your own thing so long as it doesn't harm others, so yes, independent thinking. My independent thinking led me to be lazy instead of mentally disputing the relative achievements of Chester A. Arthur and Millard Fillmore, so that I could spend my time on more important things, like video games

[opebo]

5. Barack Obama

Really ?

Sure, after the other four listed.  Who would be further left than him other than FDR, Truman, LBJ, and Kennedy?

Since TR, Eisenhower and Nixon were all more left-wing than him, I'm surprised at your choice.

I think that's debatable, and in any case those men were right-of-center in their times, which is no recommendation of their character (in fact I find both TR and Nixon a bit distasteful, but Eisenhower it is true was very acceptable for a Republican).  I think Obama's inclinations are to the left of an Eisenhower, he is just trapped by the horrible new ultra-right reality of american government.

[Mechaman]

Eh...

Not sure on mine.

Hmm, let me see here:

1. Thomas Jefferson (Democratic Republican-Virginia)
2. Calvin Coolidge (Republican-Massachusetts)
3. Grover S. Cleveland (Democratic-New York)
4. John Q. Adams (National Republican-Massachusetts)
5. Chester A. Arthur (Republican-New York)

Makes sense I guess. Why do you like JQA though? I like him too, but from what I know, no libertarian should like him.

He wasn't THAT bad.  And anyway, I don't really consider myself libertarian now days.  Too many Scotmanesque qualities in there that prevents me from really thinking through various issues (no offense guys).
It's not really the fault of people who are libertarians, just that the philosophy is set up that way.  Mint pretty much nails it on the head with the "you're either whole hog or you're not" spiel.  I'd guess if I'm anything I'm probably a VERY cynical classical liberal.

[/awaits inevitable flame war]

And anyway, he is definitely a principled man who held some brave views and I believe had a courage that was unequal of his day, even if he was a crazy tariff supporter.  And a few bolts and nuts saner than his successor in office.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Eh...

Not sure on mine.

Hmm, let me see here:

1. Thomas Jefferson (Democratic Republican-Virginia)
2. Calvin Coolidge (Republican-Massachusetts)
3. Grover S. Cleveland (Democratic-New York)
4. John Q. Adams (National Republican-Massachusetts)
5. Chester A. Arthur (Republican-New York)

Makes sense I guess. Why do you like JQA though? I like him too, but from what I know, no libertarian should like him.

He wasn't THAT bad.  And anyway, I don't really consider myself libertarian now days.  Too many Scotmanesque qualities in there that prevents me from really thinking through various issues (no offense guys).
It's not really the fault of people who are libertarians, just that the philosophy is set up that way.  Mint pretty much nails it on the head with the "you're either whole hog or you're not" spiel.  I'd guess if I'm anything I'm probably a VERY cynical classical liberal.

[/awaits inevitable flame war]

And anyway, he is definitely a principled man who held some brave views and I believe had a courage that was unequal of his day, even if he was a crazy tariff supporter.  And a few bolts and nuts saner than his successor in office.

I'd have to agree with you there. The Adams family (hah) (at least John and JQA) was very into taking their stand on an issue and not budging. That's why we didn't end up in official war with either France or England back in the late 1790's. Heck, now I feel like I should include at least one of them in my top 5. Not sure which one though.

And I definitely would have supported him over Andrew Jackson, a man it seems every US History teacher has fallen in love with for some reason.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

And anyway, I don't really consider myself libertarian now days.  Too many Scotmanesque qualities in there that prevents me from really thinking through various issues (no offense guys).
It's not really the fault of people who are libertarians, just that the philosophy is set up that way.  Mint pretty much nails it on the head with the "you're either whole hog or you're not" spiel.  I'd guess if I'm anything I'm probably a VERY cynical classical liberal.

I love you.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Well? Here's mine:

1. Teddy Roosevelt (progressive and badass, an unbeatable combo)
2. FDR (13 f[inks]ing years of New Dealing and war-winning)
3. Lincoln (Need I explain?)
4. Wilson (FDR Lite)
5. Kennedy (Civil rights, saved the world)

LBJ would be #4 but for the 'Nam.

Oh man. That's going to hurt.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Well? Here's mine:

1. Teddy Roosevelt (progressive and badass, an unbeatable combo)
2. FDR (13 f[inks]ing years of New Dealing and war-winning)
3. Lincoln (Need I explain?)
4. Wilson (FDR Lite)
5. Kennedy (Civil rights, saved the world)

LBJ would be #4 but for the 'Nam.

Oh man. That's going to hurt.

inb4 shitstorm from libertards