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| | |-+  Poll for Mideast Citizens: Lt. Governor
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Poll
Question: What do you think of the idea to re-establish the Lt. Governor office?
Good idea   -7 (53.8%)
Bad idea   -6 (46.2%)
Not sure   -0 (0%)
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Total Voters: 13

Author Topic: Poll for Mideast Citizens: Lt. Governor  (Read 1223 times)
ZuWo
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« on: June 18, 2012, 04:57:51 am »
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This is a poll for Mideast citizens only.

What do you think of the idea to re-establish the office of Lt. Governor with more competences than under the old constitution? There has been an influx of new citizens in the recent weeks so we may have to create new offices to give people more opportunities to get involved in regional politics.
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Franzl
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 05:49:52 am »
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Oppose. Elections should be competitive.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2012, 06:35:14 am »
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Oppose. Elections should be competitive.

Does the existence of a Lt. Governor office necessarily mean that there are no competitive elections? We have competitive Assembly elections thanks to the amendment we've passed recently. But still, there is a large number of citizens who can't do a lot because there aren't many offices to run for. The creation of the office of Lt. Governor with real competences could remedy this to a certain extent.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012, 07:50:49 am »
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If its given enough power.

There certainly needs to be competition, but there also needs to be opportunities for new members to become involved.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012, 08:01:51 am »
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I had the following competences for the Lt. Governor in mind:

- becomes Governor when the office of Governor is vacant (or when the Governor does not log in to the Atlas Forum without having posted a leave of absence)
- is responsible for updating the wiki
- appoints the Superior Court Judge and members of the Assembly together with the Governor in case of a vacancy
- can introduce legislation to the Assembly (like the Governor)
- can refer legislation that is rejected by the Assembly to the People by way of Proposition (like the Governor)
- administers elections when the Governor is not available
- can be notified by a citizen who would like to cast an absentee ballot (like the Governor)
- can propose amendments to the Constitution (like the Governor)

This makes the office of Lt. Governor more powerful than in the 2nd Constitution. I'm open to granting the Lt. Governor even more powers if you have additional ideas, though.
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JohanusCalvinusLibertas
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 09:42:33 am »
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If done right, it could promote competition and that promotes activity.
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 09:51:35 am »
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If it's given enough power.

Yeah, this. Voted no because I know that won''t happen.
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A-Bob
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 11:06:08 am »
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Opposed. I asked the same question when I first took office as Governor :p
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benconstine
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 01:36:16 pm »
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I got my start as Lt. Governor, and I fully support bringing it back.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 02:48:20 pm »
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Have a look at the list of competencies I designated for the new Lt. Governor. Is that enough? Should we go even further? Present your ideas. Wink

And keep in mind: This will have to be introduced as a constitutional amendment, so the idea requires broad support. That's why I want as many people as possible to get involved in this debate.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 02:50:07 pm by Mideast Governor ZuWo »Logged
Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 02:54:19 pm »
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Unnecessary, bad idea.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 03:31:24 pm »
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In theory I could give up the entire project now because the majority of Assemblymembers are already against the idea. So if I am going to introduce this idea in any way it will be by means of a popular initiative. Wink
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A-Bob
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 03:39:46 pm »
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In theory I could give up the entire project now because the majority of Assemblymembers are already against the idea. So if I am going to introduce this idea in any way it will be by means of a popular initiative. Wink

Bring it up through an initiative. There's nothing wrong with debate. If the majority of the region wants it then I will fully support it. I just don't think any of the older members want a Lt. Governor. Do keep up the debate though.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2012, 03:58:04 pm »
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Why not make the leut. Governor a fourth assemblyman, and their vote breaks ties? They could be similar to President of Senate - automically be Speaker if they want, or can pass it on to an assemblyman.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2012, 04:02:53 pm »
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Just to let you know, these are the articles and sections of the regional Constitution that would have to be amended (the amended version is already given) if we were to establish the office of Lt. Governor according to the plan which I outlined:

Re-establishment of the office of Lt. Governor (Constitutional Amendment)

Article I - The Executive

Section 1: The Governor and the Lieutenant Governor

2. No person shall be Governor or Lieutenant Governor who is not a registered voter residing in the Mideast Region.

Section 2: Gubernatorial Elections

4. Regular elections to the post of Lieutenant Governor shall be held concurrently with those for Governor.

Section 3: Vacancy of the Governorship

1. If the Governorship shall fall vacant, the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor.
2. If both the Governorship and Lieutenant Governorship shall fall vacant then the vacancy shall be filled in a manner specified by Law.
3. If the Lieutenant Governorship shall fall vacant, the Governor shall nominate a new Lieutenant Governor; the nomination shall then be voted on by the Assembly.
4. In the event that the Governor does not log-in to the Atlas Forum for 36 hours without having announced a leave of absence, then the Lieutenant Governor shall become Governor.

Section 4: The Wiki

1. The Lieutenant Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure.
2. If appropriate action is not taken within 30 days of the passage of said legislation or occurrence, the Assembly shall choose a member of its body to serve as acting Lieutenant Governor and to assume all responsibilities of the Lieutenant Governor until such time as the Lieutenant Governor has fulfilled the first clause of this section.

Article II - The Judiciary

Section 2: Appointment to the Superior Court

1. In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated jointly by the Governor and Lieutenant Governor. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Speaker of the Assembly.

Article III - Legislation and Recall

Section 1: The Assembly

6. Vacancies in the Assembly shall be filled in a manner specified by Law, and until such determination is made, by a joint appointment of the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor.

Section 2: Legislation

2. Legislation shall be considered by the Assembly upon petition of any Assembly member, the Governor, the Lieutenant Governor or two Mideast citizens.
5. Should the Assembly reject ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor or the Lieutenant Governor may refer such legislation to the People by way of Proposition.
6. Should the Assembly pass and the Governor sign legislation and a group of 4 or more citizens or the Lieutenant Governor publicly protest the measure in either the Mideast Assembly or a separate thread, a public referendum shall be held on that legislation. All public referendums shall come to a full vote of the citizens of the Mideast in a special Voting Booth to be administered in accordance with Article IV of this Constitution. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the third Thursday of the month and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 48 hours after beginning.

Section 3: Propositions

1. Propositions shall be proposed by the Governor or the Lieutenant Governor after such legislation has failed in the Assembly. Voting shall begin between midnight Eastern Standard Time on the first Thursday proposal and 0001 Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday thereafter, and shall conclude exactly 72 hours after beginning.

Article IV - Election Regulations

Section 1: Election Procedure

5. The Governor shall administer all elections, propositions, Constitutional Amendments and recalls, unless it be his recall or he shall be unavailable, in which case the Lieutenant Governor shall administer the elections. If he or she is also unavailable, then the Speaker of the Assembly shall administer the elections. If he or she is also unavailable, then the Judge shall administer the elections.

Section 2: Absentee Voting

1. If a voter cannot be present for an election, he or she may cast an absentee ballot in advance, provided that he or she notifies the Governor or Lieutenant Governor in public at least one week before the elections.

Article VI - Constitutional Amendment, Adoption and Supremacy

Section 1: Amendment

1. The Governor, the Lieutenant Governor, the Assembly, or a group of at least 25% of the registered voters in the Mideast shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by a two-thirds majority of the People voting.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 04:06:18 pm by Mideast Governor ZuWo »Logged
A-Bob
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2012, 06:03:27 pm »
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Quote
Section 4: The Wiki

1. The Lieutenant Governor shall hold the responsibility of updating the Mideast regional Wiki for all legislation and occurrences during his or her tenure.

We have a motive!

I am not in approval of Article II
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 08:17:18 pm »
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If you elect all of your regional legislators at the same time, you could consider the Northeast's solution to the electoral competitiveness problem: Grant the title of Lieutenant Governor to the legislator receiving the most votes in the prior election.

This doesn't work well if you have a large set of responsibilities and powers in mind, but if you're most interested in having someone to take the Governor's place in case of absence or resignation, it's an effective way of dealing with the situation.
The Speaker assumes Governorship if the Governor resigns or disappears, so that's already taken care of.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2012, 08:19:08 pm »
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If you elect all of your regional legislators at the same time, you could consider the Northeast's solution to the electoral competitiveness problem: Grant the title of Lieutenant Governor to the legislator receiving the most votes in the prior election.

This doesn't work well if you have a large set of responsibilities and powers in mind, but if you're most interested in having someone to take the Governor's place in case of absence or resignation, it's an effective way of dealing with the situation.
The Speaker assumes Governorship if the Governor resigns or disappears, so that's already taken care of.

Then you have no Speaker.
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Yeah, after four years of being a non-disruptive poster on the forum, never considered a troublemaker, even someone who was liked well enough to be elected Atlasian President, Napoleon should be allowed to stay.


tmthforu94
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2012, 08:50:44 pm »
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If you elect all of your regional legislators at the same time, you could consider the Northeast's solution to the electoral competitiveness problem: Grant the title of Lieutenant Governor to the legislator receiving the most votes in the prior election.

This doesn't work well if you have a large set of responsibilities and powers in mind, but if you're most interested in having someone to take the Governor's place in case of absence or resignation, it's an effective way of dealing with the situation.
The Speaker assumes Governorship if the Governor resigns or disappears, so that's already taken care of.

Then you have no Speaker.
Then the Governor would appoint the vacant spot, and the Assembly would elect a new Speaker.
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Upset: Hogan wins in Maryland
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ZuWo
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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2012, 02:52:14 am »
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A-Bob, you got me. Wink

Seriously, though, I don't mind doing the necessary wiki updates even if it's tedious and time-consuming. The reason why I want the Lt. Governor to take charge of the wiki is to give him more responsibilities and work. It helps to make the office more meaningful.

What is it about Article 2 that you don't like?

Quote
Article II - The Judiciary

Section 2: Appointment to the Superior Court

1. In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated jointly by the Governor and Lieutenant Governor. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Speaker of the Assembly.


I looked it up, and the joint appointment of a new Judge by the Governor and the Lt. Governor used to be the case when the 2nd constitution was in place. I think it makes sense because it means that the appointee will have broader support if it's the Governor AND the Lt. Governor who have to agree on a single candidate. The second sentence of this article (with the exception of the words "... and the Lieutenant Governor") is taken directly from the current constitution.
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A-Bob
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« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 06:31:10 pm »
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A-Bob, you got me. Wink

Seriously, though, I don't mind doing the necessary wiki updates even if it's tedious and time-consuming. The reason why I want the Lt. Governor to take charge of the wiki is to give him more responsibilities and work. It helps to make the office more meaningful.

What is it about Article 2 that you don't like?

Quote
Article II - The Judiciary

Section 2: Appointment to the Superior Court

1. In order to be nominated to the Superior Court, a person shall be nominated jointly by the Governor and Lieutenant Governor. In the event that 60 hours elapse from the time of a case being filed in the Mideast Superior Court without such action taken by the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor, said responsibility shall fall exclusively to the Speaker of the Assembly.


I looked it up, and the joint appointment of a new Judge by the Governor and the Lt. Governor used to be the case when the 2nd constitution was in place. I think it makes sense because it means that the appointee will have broader support if it's the Governor AND the Lt. Governor who have to agree on a single candidate. The second sentence of this article (with the exception of the words "... and the Lieutenant Governor") is taken directly from the current constitution.


Considering we won't be running these guys on tickets, I don't think a Lt. Governor should have so much power in controlling the SC. If an appointment is bad, the Assembly will block it, but one guy shouldn't be able to block someone who the people, Governor, and Assembly want in the SC.
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HappyWarrior
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« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2012, 07:26:28 pm »
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Unnecessary, bad idea.

^^^ This, I remember when we had a Lt. Governor and it was TOTALLY useless.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2012, 01:17:13 am »
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Unnecessary, bad idea.

^^^ This, I remember when we had a Lt. Governor and it was TOTALLY useless.

Please have a look at my proposal. It is precisely not my idea to re-instate the kind of Lt. Governorship which used to exist three years ago. If we re-establish this office it will have more competencies.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2012, 10:01:17 am »
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In order to make the office of Lt. Governor even more powerful, we could grant the Lt. Governor the right to break ties in the Assembly (the Governor can still veto the bill even if the Lt. Governor votes "aye"):

Quote
Article III - Legislation and Recall

Section 2: Legislation

3. Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the two-thirds vote of the Assembly. In case of a vote tie, the Lt. Governor has 72 hours to cast a vote to break the tie. If the Lt. Governor does not vote to break the tie, the piece of legislation in question fails.
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A-Bob
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« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2012, 11:15:45 pm »
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In order to make the office of Lt. Governor even more powerful, we could grant the Lt. Governor the right to break ties in the Assembly (the Governor can still veto the bill even if the Lt. Governor votes "aye"):

Quote
Article III - Legislation and Recall

Section 2: Legislation

3. Should the Assembly pass ordinary legislation by a majority vote, then the Governor may sign such legislation into Law, or veto such legislation. A veto may be overturned upon the two-thirds vote of the Assembly. In case of a vote tie, the Lt. Governor has 72 hours to cast a vote to break the tie. If the Lt. Governor does not vote to break the tie, the piece of legislation in question fails.

I am in favor of this and striking any judicial power. However, I am still not compelled to vote for this as previous oldies have stated, it truly was useless and makes elections less competitive.
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