Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 24, 2014, 10:21:40 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  U.S. Presidential Election Results (Moderator: True Federalist)
| | |-+  Can anyone explain Mississippi's weird results from 1956-1964?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Can anyone explain Mississippi's weird results from 1956-1964?  (Read 2075 times)
HockeyDude
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6300
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -8.26

View Profile
« on: June 18, 2012, 10:35:23 pm »
Ignore

1956:
Stevenson: 58
Eisenhower: 24
Unpledged?: 17

1960:
Unpledged?: 39
Kennedy: 34
Nixon: 25

1964:
Goldwater: 87!?
Johnson: 12

So... how exactly did MS run it's elections for there to be unpledged electors on the ballot, and why did the voters vote for something that would make no difference?  (protest vote?).  And how the hell did Goldwater manage 87% in the state when Johnson won in the biggest landslide in modern history?  I know the Deep South was Goldwater's base and all... but other Southern whites seemed OK enough with Johnson (a Southerner) that Goldwater wasn't racking up such ridiculous numbers. 

It just seems like the rest of the country was "normal" in a way... and for every election over 12 years Mississippi went off on a tangent all by itself. 
Logged



OH I JUST CAN'T WAIT TILL HE'S MOD!!!
morgieb
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5300
Australia


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 11:46:04 pm »
Ignore

Racism.
Logged
Del Tachi
Republican95
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2202


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 12:12:47 am »
Ignore

Decades of Northern Aggression.
Logged

GM Napoleon
Napoleon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15357


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 12:13:36 am »
Ignore

Decades of Northern Aggression.

Bahahahhahaha
Logged

When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10444


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 12:36:41 am »
Ignore

Sending a message to DC.

1956 Democrat Stevenson.  A Republican was in office.

1960 Unpledged.  A curse on both your houses.

1964 Republican Goldwater.  A Democrat was in office.
Logged




WORST PRESIDENT SINCE WORLD WAR II
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11160
Russian Federation


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 03:18:01 am »
Ignore

The unpledged vote meant that if MS was needed for a candidate to win the electoral college, they wouldn't get it. Then, either a candidate makes a deal with the electors to get their vote, or it  goes to the House and some sort of deal or a better candidate is selected.  So a protest vote, but not impossible that it would make a difference.


One thing to keep in mind is that MS had the lowest voter participation of any state at that time (25% in 1960).
And that's not just because people weren't interested in voting. In some ways democracy is a recent development in the Deep South.  The political tradition was more unified than in neighboring states with more upland areas (eg.  AL, where you had pro-Unionists in the hill country during the Civil War).
Logged

Ebowed
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16351
Australia


Political Matrix
E: -8.32, S: -9.30

View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 09:50:18 am »
Ignore

Decades of Northern Aggression.

Yes, if it weren't for 'Northern Aggression', maybe Mississippi wouldn't have had to perform all of those lynchings.
Logged

...anyone who says our society must force people to expose themselves to those of the opposite sexual orientation, is not decent.

So you mean if we force the gay to be exposed to the straight, we are treating the gay indecently?  Because you didn't specify which direction the hate was supposed to go there, Black Beans.
Lettuce Gay Bacon and Tomato
The Obamanation
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5813
United States


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 04:14:02 pm »
Ignore

Racism.
You beat me to it!
Logged

Convincing BRTD to drop the Sneakers O'Toole BS is like convincing Sneakers O'Toole to take his sneakers off.

(I realize I'm probably just further encouraging him by saying that, and for this I apologize.)
Indy Texas
independentTX
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4373
Virgin Islands, U.S.


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2012, 05:21:31 pm »
Ignore

In MS at that time, your presidential ballot didn't simply have the candidates on it. Instead, you had to vote for a slate of electors who were intending to support a candidate. So instead of voting for Dwight Eisenhower or Adlai Stevenson, you would either vote for electors pledged to vote for Eisenhower, electors pledged to vote for Stevenson, or electors who were unpledged.

As to why they picked unpledged electors? Disagreement with the Eisenhower administration over its use of federal power to force school districts to comply with the Brown v. Board of Education ruling, the Democrats' selection of a northern, liberal pro-civil rights candidate, racism.

Logged

2014 Endorsements
TX-Gov: Davis | TX-Lt. Gov: Van de Putte | TX-AG: Houston | TX-Comptroller: Collier | TX-Land Comm: Cook | TX-Ag Comm: None | TX-RRC: Sitton
Lettuce Gay Bacon and Tomato
The Obamanation
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5813
United States


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2012, 06:28:56 pm »
Ignore

Quote
the biggest landslide in modern history



Logged

Convincing BRTD to drop the Sneakers O'Toole BS is like convincing Sneakers O'Toole to take his sneakers off.

(I realize I'm probably just further encouraging him by saying that, and for this I apologize.)
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27767
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2012, 09:31:29 pm »

Quote
the biggest landslide in modern history





While the electoral vote margins in 1972 and 1984 are greater than what Johnson got in 1964, Johnson's 61.05% of the popular vote in 1964  is the largest share of the popular vote anyone has gotten since Monroe got 80.6% in an essentially unopposed 1820 election.
Logged

I wonder why Van Heusen never bothered to make women's clothing?
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11160
Russian Federation


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2012, 11:48:33 pm »
Ignore

Where did you get the 1820 popular vote figure TF?
Logged

HockeyDude
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6300
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -8.26

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 09:26:50 am »
Ignore

Thanks for the answers... I knew racism had something to do with it, but had no idea about the actual MS election process.  

Still find it fascinating that in 1964 MS voters (who I'm assuming were all white), were SO homogenous.  

EDIT: then again, checking the 2008 exit poll, whites in MS went 88-11 McCain.  LA and AL are similar, and outside of those 3 it seems to normalize to a degree.  This is 2008 for god's sake, that's just unbelievable. 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 09:33:22 am by AWallTEP81 »Logged



OH I JUST CAN'T WAIT TILL HE'S MOD!!!
--
Kalwejt
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 36851
View Profile
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2012, 12:31:32 pm »
Ignore

Decades of Northern Aggression.

I really hope it was nothing more than a failed irony attempt.
Logged
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27767
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2012, 12:31:43 pm »

Where did you get the 1820 popular vote figure TF?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1820

Altho technically, that's the vote share for Republican electors, not for Monroe himself.  Here's a weird fact.  The Federalist electors won in Massachusetts, but they voted for Monroe as well.
Logged

I wonder why Van Heusen never bothered to make women's clothing?
A.G. Snowstalker
Snowstalker
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16918
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -8.06, S: -4.96

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2012, 10:47:44 am »
Ignore

And that's not just because people weren't interested in voting. In some ways democracy is a recent development in the Deep South.  The political tradition was more unified than in neighboring states with more upland areas (eg.  AL, where you had pro-Unionists in the hill country during the Civil War).

Also because blacks were effectively barred from voting.
Logged

Gravis Marketing
brittain33
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12721


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2012, 09:05:10 am »
Ignore

Sending a message to DC.

1964 Republican Goldwater.  A Democrat was in office.

Mm-hmm.
Logged
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18706
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2012, 02:22:18 pm »
Ignore

Before the 24th amendment, blacks essentially were not allowed to vote at all.
Logged
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58783
India


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2012, 03:45:51 am »
Ignore

The unpledged vote meant that if MS was needed for a candidate to win the electoral college, they wouldn't get it.
It meant that if the Democrats needed Mississippi (and the same thing was tried in Louisiana too but the unpledged slate didn't win) the civil rights plank of their platform had to be retracted. That is all. It was not available to Nixon.
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Lettuce Gay Bacon and Tomato
The Obamanation
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5813
United States


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2012, 10:38:39 am »
Ignore

Before the 24th amendment, blacks essentially were not allowed to vote at all.
In the South, that is.
Logged

Convincing BRTD to drop the Sneakers O'Toole BS is like convincing Sneakers O'Toole to take his sneakers off.

(I realize I'm probably just further encouraging him by saying that, and for this I apologize.)
old timey villain
cope1989
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1730


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2012, 07:52:31 pm »
Ignore

Thanks for the answers... I knew racism had something to do with it, but had no idea about the actual MS election process.  

Still find it fascinating that in 1964 MS voters (who I'm assuming were all white), were SO homogenous.  

EDIT: then again, checking the 2008 exit poll, whites in MS went 88-11 McCain.  LA and AL are similar, and outside of those 3 it seems to normalize to a degree.  This is 2008 for god's sake, that's just unbelievable. 

Yeah, it's pretty despicable. I mean, you could argue against the racist angle and say that whites in the deep south just happen to be overehelmingly conservative, but even that doesn't justify close to 90% of whites voting Republican when the vote is much more split in almost every other state. Even whites in Utah gave Obama more support.

So when you examine the facts you realize that racial politics still exist in the south in a big way. 1964 was just the first election that began to turn the "solid south" the other way.
Logged

Can't we all just get along?
freepcrusher
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2283
United States


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2012, 10:09:46 pm »
Ignore

the white vote exit polls are wrong in some states. Evidence suggests that while McCain obviously won whites by a huge margin in the south, it wasn't by as much. From what I see in the south he got:

73% in Texas
72% in Oklahoma
no partisan data for Arkansas
79% in Louisiana
82% in Mississippi
77% in Alabama
58% in Florida
72% in Georgia
69% in South Carolina
61% in North Carolina
67% in Tennessee
no partisan data for Kentucky or West Virginia
59% in Virginia
56% in Maryland
46% in Delaware
Logged
old timey villain
cope1989
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1730


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2012, 10:16:13 pm »
Ignore

the white vote exit polls are wrong in some states. Evidence suggests that while McCain obviously won whites by a huge margin in the south, it wasn't by as much. From what I see in the south he got:

73% in Texas
72% in Oklahoma
no partisan data for Arkansas
79% in Louisiana
82% in Mississippi
77% in Alabama
58% in Florida
72% in Georgia
69% in South Carolina
61% in North Carolina
67% in Tennessee
no partisan data for Kentucky or West Virginia
59% in Virginia
56% in Maryland
46% in Delaware

How did you determine that data?
Logged

Can't we all just get along?
freepcrusher
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2283
United States


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2012, 10:42:59 pm »
Ignore

the white vote exit polls are wrong in some states. Evidence suggests that while McCain obviously won whites by a huge margin in the south, it wasn't by as much. From what I see in the south he got:

73% in Texas
72% in Oklahoma
no partisan data for Arkansas
79% in Louisiana
82% in Mississippi
77% in Alabama
58% in Florida
72% in Georgia
69% in South Carolina
61% in North Carolina
67% in Tennessee
no partisan data for Kentucky or West Virginia
59% in Virginia
56% in Maryland
46% in Delaware

How did you determine that data?

Dave's Redistricting App. You can see my thread about it below:
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=154691.0
Logged
realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6427
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -0.90, S: 2.78

View Profile
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2012, 11:01:37 pm »
Ignore

the white vote exit polls are wrong in some states. Evidence suggests that while McCain obviously won whites by a huge margin in the south, it wasn't by as much. From what I see in the south he got:

73% in Texas
72% in Oklahoma
no partisan data for Arkansas
79% in Louisiana
82% in Mississippi
77% in Alabama
58% in Florida
72% in Georgia
69% in South Carolina
61% in North Carolina
67% in Tennessee
no partisan data for Kentucky or West Virginia
59% in Virginia
56% in Maryland
46% in Delaware

How did you determine that data?

Dave's Redistricting App. You can see my thread about it below:
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=154691.0

That wouldn't take into account racial turnout differentials or behavior of localized 'minoritied' groups (that is, whites in heavily black areas or blacks in heavily white areas) which evidence suggests vote differently than those in areas where they're a supermajority. While you'd get relatively close, I'd take those numbers with a grain of salt.
Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines